Anxiety and Panic Information

Question:

Tanya, What a powerful post. Meryl

Response:

Idol picks ! and if you don’t watch it tanite?

Hummm, I wonder how come none of your new found friends from ASAPM don’t respond to your Idol posts…ya know, the one’s you kiss up to 24/7. Would you like me to explain your role here again. You seem to be a slow learner.<bfg

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communication, so pecked out: ::smackin’ Elliott:: Gwen?  < never mind

Well, *I* am here and thought the same thing so…er… you’re not alone P.

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My dear Tanya, Please, perhaps this will help you.   say  "All healing is essentially the release of fear" and it is true. My best wishes to you, dear. Gail Michael

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know how to, with exactness, approach this, I merely deem it necessary, as we’ve gotten off-track here many times. As faulty as I am with words, I’m going to describe my panic attack as best I can. Some may fine if helpful, some may find it humorous, I think most, unfortunately, can relate. "I was sleeping and right in the middle of a good dream Like all at once I wake up from something that keeps knocking at my brain Before I go insane " …I feel as if i have no rhyme or reason. The world is no longer important. My life is no longer mine. I’m panicking, I have no emotion.  I don’t feel like crying, laughing, or even communicating.  There is no longer justice in my brain, no life in my life. I write this as i panic, unbelievably, i never have done this before. I see nothing and I see everything.  I see nothing as important, My Brother’s suicide, I vaguely see, but not really… my childhood is kind of there, but not really, every thing is tan and beige. Typing this seems surreal. My death is eminent, it towers above everything… i WILL die. The past is so not there, but flashes before me as if it is so,  I see myself babysitting, going to church, my parents fighting, my prom dress, my cheerleading uniform, and it doesn’t matter. I’m doing what i normally don’t do… speak. I’ve never spoken during an attack, I feel like calling my Mom or my Dad, but they don’t or won’t understand. I’m actually crying. It feels almost ok… or even good. I still know I will die, and I just looked outside and there’s clouds which scare me so horribly.  Anything in the sky scares me.  It is the end of the world when anything unusual is in the sky. I don’t care that I was broke or that I’m no longer broke, but that stuff is popping up.  My life could end at this moment…… and this moment is endless. Dying now seems unimportant. Is my heart beating fast?  please say "no", is my blood pressue over the top?  just say "no", don’t ask me if I’m "ok", just sit with me. DON’T look at me. Make it seem normal, as my world is far from that at this moment. I depend on you to kick back and be normal ! I’m alone, and breathing.  I know I’ll get past this wall and come through on the other side, unscathed. I am typing coherently, that makes me feel good. The dogs are barking, I still see tan, beige. I’m praying.  It seems so useless, as I only pray when in desperation. I feel guilty. My world is no longer my world, it belongs to panic. The more I relax, the more i see how useless this life of mine is, it’s merely a show. I see a little slice of heaven in my non-heaven now…. I now am looking at my Brother.  He’s smiling.  It’s still alll tan and beige. I’m feeling a bit better now, i think. The movie is fastening up, slow motion is coming to a halt…. It’s still a movie. I’m thinking I might not die right now. My brain should be destroyed, I hate it. The dogs need to eat, they’re beckoning. I’ll die.

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Elliot says: -There’s no way I could write anything during a panic attack. If I could, that chronograph for years to see just how long the attacks lasted. – Nope. When the attack got to the point that I knew it was one, I was busy stayin’ alive and not once could remember to set the time, – so I never knew.  When asked, I say it must feel something like being thrown from an airplane, – the feeling one would feel between the time the realized it – to the time they hit the ground – would be something like a "panic attack" , – so no time to think about "how long" ect., ect.,  - K

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – communication, so pecked out: I don’t know how to, with exactness, approach this, I merely deem it necessary, as we’ve gotten off-track here many times. I’m going to describe my panic attack as best I can. My very first panic attack is one that I can recall very well. Others sort of blur because there were so many, but to me – what you describe is an experience that your mind and body go through – and it’s not what I’d call a ‘panic attack.’ It seems more of a state of being; it seems a very scary state of being. I’m not qualified to say just what it would be considered. To you, it’s your panic attack. There’s no way I could write anything during a panic attack. If I could, that would mean that the attack had subsided. It’s difficult enough to breath, and focus is totally out the window. Example from me: ONE MAN’S panic attack (my very first): I was in Chicago for Thanksgiving, 1978. On the following Friday, we (my family, my girl friend, my cousins) were at a social function. We’d been there for about an hour – and then I was finding it hot in there, and felt a bit of trouble breathing, so I went outside to get some fresh air. I walked back inside and after about 5 minutes, was getting that same feeling, so went back outside. This time, I really had trouble breathing – my hands became all sweaty and my heart began to race race race. I sat down on cold concrete steps in front of the building, then had to lie down. I was gasping for breath, for life. Some people walked by me and just kept walking. I wasn’t really very aware of them anyhow. An old neighborhood acquaintance saw me and I heard talking. In a bit, I believe one of my brothers was there with me. Yes, that’s it. Whatever questions may have been asked didn’t really register. I don’t know if I answered or not as I was pretty damn sure I was dying of something right there and then. My parents and family were kind of circled around me for a time, and wrapped me up in a coat and got me to the car. When we got to my family home, I got on the sofa and was seeming better. Then it hit again, with the same symptoms of not being able to catch my breath, the sweaty palms, heart racing and fear that I was dying. A doc DID make a house call and said nothing. Later on, I felt the same (again). These had to be separate panic attacks, as my body WAS able to breath and took breaks from all that it was going through. There’s no way that this sort of panic attack can last too long. I don’t believe in ‘day long’ panic attacks, or even hours. The aftermath can leave one totally exhausted and messed up, but that’s no longer the ‘attack’ itself. Anyhow….. I ended up in the ER on a Friday night in Chicago. What a fun place to be! I hadn’t been stabbed or shot and didn’t have blood oozing outta my eyeballs, so I wasn’t really a priority. I was pretty OK by that time. They checked me out (when they got to me) and just sent me home. No real explanation given at all. The next day (Saturday) I went to see my dad’s doctor, who was on the high end of docs. He suggested (after an exam) that I must have had a ‘bug’ of some sort. I drove back to Indianapolis on Sunday without any problems and just tossed it off as some flu bug. While calling on an account on Tuesday, I ended up on the floor of their buying office – with all the same symptoms as described above. When I recovered from it, I was driving home and decided to stop to pick up a few groceries. In the store, I began feeling dizzy, then sweaty palms and heart racing followed. Blurred vision became the norm. That was another ‘attempt’ by panic to remind me who was boss, but I didn’t KNOW who/what panic was! This kept going on for about 2 weeks, at which time my GP suggested a 5 day or so stint in the hospital for a ‘complete’ physical exam to see just what was going on.  Nada. He found elevated sugar levels, that he called ’slight’ – but put me on a diabetic diet that I followed for two years. I lost weight. I still was having panic attacks, as described. And so it goes – or rather went. I’m just glad I ain’t THERE any more. Whew! — Elliott remove yourshoes to email http://www.unitedmedia.com/creators/ballardst/ If you want a new idea, read an old book.

The first full blown panic attack that I had is the only one that a remember in full detail.  I was all of sixteen years old, it was July, and I’d just gotten home from working an eight hour shift in the ice cream/coffee shop.  It had been a fairly normal stress free day, I was sitting in the living room drinking a bottle of coke and talking to my mom about what we were going to be doing with all the blackberries that we’d have in a couple of weeks.  All of the sudden my palms are sweaty, my heart feels like it is going to beat out of my chest, I can’t breathe, feel sick to my stomach, and think I’m going to die. My mother called the ambulance, by the time they arrived I felt normal again save being scared and tired.  I refused being transported as my vital signs were okay and I felt okay-ish aside from the fear.  This was followed up with a trip to the GP, and my first of may tests for diabetes.  When those tests came back negitive, I got to see the ear, nose and throat specialist as surely it was asthma.  I remember that doctor making my mother leave the room so that he could get an "honest" answer about my recreational drug use.  At the time it was non-existant.  I could have been shooting heroin ten times a day and I’d have said as much in front of my mom had that been the case because I was so terrified of the mysterious thing that was wrong with me.  I was put on prednisone and some oral asthma med, which actually brought on panic attacks for me. Flash forward two years, it gets really bad agian.  New GP sends me to a neurologist.  He does an EEG, tells me that I might be having some sort of incomplete seizure, but it is likely just stress so take a walk everyday. A couple years later I hook up with a guy several years my senior and am introduced to "better living through chemistry."  Massive self medication with alcohol and a myriad of other things, still seeing doctor’s trying to get a diagnosis.  But feeling more comfortable in my own skin than I have in years. Guy ends up not quite getting I don’t want to see you anymore, and decides that it might be a good idea to stalk me.  Something that’ll win over every piece of arm candy with an undiagnosed anxiety disorder.  I’d quit using the other things but am still downing at least a bottle of wine every night after work, and smoking three packs a day.  Wonder why? The state presses charges against him for harassing me.  There was no stalking law at the time.  He demands a jury trial, I have to testify. My GP finally catches a clue that I am under a abnormally large amount of stress and writes for BuSpar.  A drug that makes me dizzy and left me feeling high but didn’t touch anxiety.  I face a man I once loved but had become terrified of with nothing to calm my nerves. I play with a bunch of herbal crap.  It was better than nothing. Finally I read some article in a magazine about anxiety disorders and say damn this is me.  I take it to my doctor and say do you think that this might be what I have? He writes a script for xanax and sends me on my way.  I am monumentally fearful of taking the stuff.  The irony of it all in a year and a half I’d gone from putting damn near every substance known to man into my body to being scared to take a single pill that my doctor had prescribed. Medicine and treatment in America, wonderful stuff.   Jess

Response:

well, tanya pecked out that finger method….. or sumthin.. and said. i made that up about you, but i’m guessing, as i’ve lost my ASS to panic… i assume you have too, how presumptious of me. It’s right on the money – of course. I feel quite fortunate that I was able to keep working. I told my partners (owning a business is the fortunate part – and my own understanding of fairness in business) that I’d work for about 1/4 of what I’d been making, as I understood that after time, I’d become pretty limited in just what I could do regarding traveling (which is/was a great deal of what we do).

i DO understand your business, and for you to make it work is a tad more than admirable. i’ve lost my ass 4 times, this is the 5th upswing.  the last one? didn’t just take me down financially, as money ain’t all important to me, i lost my Dad in the process, something that i know now, is not recoverable.  and He was my Hero. The scale has slid back up over time, as I do quite a lot – and found that now, business is pretty well set up for folks like me, as most communications with both factories and customers is via email – with back and forth spread sheets and plan-o-grams – and we do (and always have been) become professional problem solvers. I can do that from your bathroom.

a rep firm such as yourself is gifted in today’s technology, to represent so many companies and survive, period… is a feat unto itself.  to do it well?  ahhhhhhh, i take you took tha ‘control freak’ out’ah your arena and delegated…. as ALL successful business-people do. I set up some goals for myself and shared them. It took a few more decades than I suspected to get back and rolling tho

but then again, yer very old. OOPS ! yer my age… oh well . i don’t have a loving partner like you do, Elliott, a gal that loves ya even if yer little slice’ah heaven ain’t available. She’s been very patient throughout. I hadn’t had my ‘in the car’ panic attack when we’d met – so she saw me go from "I can go anywhere as long as I drive" to "oops, now I’m homebound."  There was no pity – there was nothing other than "I’ll be there for you if you’re here for me" sorta thing – with one caveat.

!…… (yet) The deal we had was ‘as long as I kept working toward recovery, then things are OK.’  I kept up my end of that bargain, and she stood by me and helped me along the way.

I LOVE HER…… for loving you. you MUST be real cute or sumthin ! cuz she didn’t do all that for yer "personality".. LOLOLLLLLLLLL i  don’t have someone standin’ in my "field of dreams" waitin’ on "barefoot" joe jackson….. i so envy you.  and that is meant as a compliment. Of all the movies you chose. It’s a favorite, and Janet often cries at the end, as her dad was a semi-pro baseball player. He died in his late 50s – colon cancer – so there is that "I wish I coulda said" stuff that brings out some similarities to them movie.

Janet can know that her Dad is in his own "field of dreams’… possibly and most probably, as nature is NOT cruel.   her Dad is watchin you’n your life, Elliott, is what we ALL wish for, i’m sure.   i’d take it off yer hands if it were ever for sale. I admit, I wouldn’t want to change places with anyone. She is a dear – and as independent as I am, I’ve grown quite fond of the girl

i’ve grown quite fond of her, myself. PLEASE kiss tha ground she walks on She just had her toes done. She’d kick me in the eye.

and so well-deserved. don’t EVER let her be tha "girl from yesterday". Nah. I’ve had my share of those. Lived with ‘em all and enjoyed it – and only loved one of ‘em. We still keep in touch, but there was something missing. I sent her on her way. Now? It’s really better every year that we’re together. I’d have thought it to be the opposite.

that is truly a "field of dreams"… i’m so glad you cherish what you have.  do you know how many don’t have what you do? most. please kiss her cheek every day and tell her that you love her.  loving has lost a lot of it’s glory and for a good reason… it’s not about "love", it’s about how you make each other "feel" when you’re ya love her !   i KNOW ya do. can i come live in yer house? In a word, no.

gol dernit ! i’ll be there in 3 days We moved.

i have detecting devices ! i actually kinda feel about you, Elliott, like i do about Dr. Phil. I have all my hair, thankyouverymuch.

i said "feel"…. ::smackin’ Elliott:: and how ya know ya got all your hair?  you may be missin’ one’re two, ya never know. …. and if given the choice of meeting Dr. Phil or Robin, it would not be Dr. Phil. Who is Robin?  I don’t watch any daytime TV –

then how ya know Dr. Phil is missin’ hair? except during baseball season – when I torture myself with a Cubs game on ‘mute’ on my office TV.

watch tha Florida team… tha Marlins should’ah thrown down tha torch’n said "OK I’M DONE"…… but some people never know to quit when they’re on top. ::shakin head:: thank you Elliott, you make me feel good. Yer makin’ me wet!

ewwwwwwwwwwwww i hate me bein’ all nice’n shit. makes me wanna VOMIT ! My personality style doesn’t allow me (with any ease) to be complimentary or huggy. So go vomit – I’ll take it as a compliment.

me neither.  i’m not’ah hugger or’ah "omg, i love you" sorta gal, so i’ll just puke. wow… that was comfy ! ::huggin’ Elliott :: (Elliott just does sumthin’ fer me)

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communication, so pecked out: …. and if given the choice of meeting Dr. Phil or Robin, it would not be Dr. Phil. Oh, Ro-bin….  From about a week ago (posts), that’s the person on American Idol?

Idol picks ! and if you don’t watch it tanite? i’m beat ya so hard yer kids’ll be dizzy. watch it, k? I DO LOVE YOU, ELLIOTT ! tell Janel i love her best, tho… she’ll be all way happy. OK, so I don’t watch daytime TV (OR) American Idol!

whatever..  wherever y’are… tell Janet ta look it up…. she’s smarter’n both of us put tagether. I’m kinda REAL glad those references swoosh right by me

yeah….. don’t make me. hmmph ! ~ta new idea, read an old book.

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i dunno where that "E Olliott" came from, i apologize.

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I don’t know how to, with exactness, approach this, I merely deem it necessary, as we’ve gotten off-track here many times. As faulty as I am with words, I’m going to describe my panic attack as best I can. Some may fine if helpful, some may find it humorous, I think most, unfortunately, can relate. "I was sleeping and right in the middle of a good dream Like all at once I wake up from something that keeps knocking at my brain Before I go insane " …I feel as if i have no rhyme or reason. The world is no longer important. My life is no longer mine. I’m panicking, I have no emotion.  I don’t feel like crying, laughing, or even communicating.  There is no longer justice in my brain, no life in my life. I write this as i panic, unbelievably, i never have done this before. I see nothing and I see everything.  I see nothing as important, My Brother’s suicide, I vaguely see, but not really… my childhood is kind of there, but not really, every thing is tan and beige. Typing this seems surreal. My death is eminent, it towers above everything… i WILL die. The past is so not there, but flashes before me as if it is so,  I see myself babysitting, going to church, my parents fighting, my prom dress, my cheerleading uniform, and it doesn’t matter. I’m doing what i normally don’t do… speak. I’ve never spoken during an attack, I feel like calling my Mom or my Dad, but they don’t or won’t understand. I’m actually crying. It feels almost ok… or even good. I still know I will die, and I just looked outside and there’s clouds which scare me so horribly.  Anything in the sky scares me.  It is the end of the world when anything unusual is in the sky. I don’t care that I was broke or that I’m no longer broke, but that stuff is popping up.  My life could end at this moment…… and this moment is endless. Dying now seems unimportant. Is my heart beating fast?  please say "no", is my blood pressue over the top?  just say "no", don’t ask me if I’m "ok", just sit with me. DON’T look at me. Make it seem normal, as my world is far from that at this moment. I depend on you to kick back and be normal ! I’m alone, and breathing.  I know I’ll get past this wall and come through on the other side, unscathed. I am typing coherently, that makes me feel good. The dogs are barking, I still see tan, beige. I’m praying.  It seems so useless, as I only pray when in desperation. I feel guilty. My world is no longer my world, it belongs to panic. The more I relax, the more i see how useless this life of mine is, it’s merely a show. I see a little slice of heaven in my non-heaven now…. I now am looking at my Brother.  He’s smiling.  It’s still alll tan and beige. I’m feeling a bit better now, i think. The movie is fastening up, slow motion is coming to a halt…. It’s still a movie. I’m thinking I might not die right now. My brain should be destroyed, I hate it. The dogs need to eat, they’re beckoning. I’ll die.

Response:

communication, so pecked out: I don’t know how to, with exactness, approach this, I merely deem it necessary, as we’ve gotten off-track here many times.

attack is one that I can recall very well. Others sort of blur because there were so many, but to me – what you describe is an experience that your mind and body go through – and it’s not what I’d call a ‘panic attack.’ It seems I’m going to describe my panic attack as best I can.

yes… and i made a decision to Do everything differently than i have so far, i made a decision to never have a panic attack again, forcing myself to do things in another way.  basically can’t do it anymore. My very first panic  more of a state of being; it seems a very scary state of being. I’m not qualified to say just what it would be considered. To you, it’s your panic attack. There’s no way I could write anything during a panic attack.

me neither.  and i did.  i don’t know if it was right or wrong, i just forced myself. < If I could, that would mean that the attack had subsided. It’s difficult enough to breath, and focus is totally out the window.

as a professional "breather"… i kinda felt my need to breathe subside when i wrote my post.  i generally want NObody around me, NObody talking to me, NObody even asking me if i’m "ok"… I HATE IT ALL SO BADLY…..the whole SCOPE !  i was breathing so well when i started writing the post and by the end, it was almost like……. maybe i "can" stop this fucking madness… because i CAME OUT ON THE OTHER SIDE !  i WILL stop it or i won’t live another month.  THAT was my decision. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Example from me: ONE MAN’S panic attack (my very first): I was in Chicago for Thanksgiving, 1978. On the following Friday, we (my family, my girl friend, my cousins) were at a social function. We’d been there for about an hour – and then I was finding it hot in there, and felt a bit of trouble breathing, so I went outside to get some fresh air. I walked back inside and after about 5 minutes, was getting that same feeling, so went back outside. This time, I really had trouble breathing – my hands became all sweaty and my heart began to race race race. I sat down on cold concrete steps in front of the building, then had to lie down. I was gasping for breath, for life. Some people walked by me and just kept walking. I wasn’t really very aware of them anyhow. An old neighborhood acquaintance saw me and I heard talking. In a bit, I believe one of my brothers was there with me. Yes, that’s it. Whatever questions may have been asked didn’t really register. I don’t know if I answered or not as I was pretty damn sure I was dying of something right there and then. My parents and family were kind of circled around me for a time, and wrapped me up in a coat and got me to the car. When we got to my family home, I got on the sofa and was seeming better. Then it hit again, with the same symptoms of not being able to catch my breath, the sweaty palms, heart racing and fear that I was dying. A doc DID make a house call and said nothing. Later on, I felt the same (again). These had to be separate panic attacks, as my body WAS able to breath and took breaks from all that it was going through. There’s no way that this sort of panic attack can last too long. I don’t believe in ‘day long’ panic attacks, or even hours. The aftermath can leave one totally exhausted and messed up, but that’s no longer the ‘attack’ itself. Anyhow….. I ended up in the ER on a Friday night in Chicago. What a fun place to be! I hadn’t been stabbed or shot and didn’t have blood oozing outta my eyeballs, so I wasn’t really a priority. I was pretty OK by that time. They checked me out (when they got to me) and just sent me home. No real explanation given at all. The next day (Saturday) I went to see my dad’s doctor, who was on the high end of docs. He suggested (after an exam) that I must have had a ‘bug’ of some sort. I drove back to Indianapolis on Sunday without any problems and just tossed it off as some flu bug. While calling on an account on Tuesday, I ended up on the floor of their buying office – with all the same symptoms as described above. When I recovered from it, I was driving home and decided to stop to pick up a few groceries. In the store, I began feeling dizzy, then sweaty palms and heart racing followed. Blurred vision became the norm. That was another ‘attempt’ by panic to remind me who was boss, but I didn’t KNOW who/what panic was! This kept going on for about 2 weeks, at which time my GP suggested a 5 day or so stint in the hospital for a ‘complete’ physical exam to see just what was going on.  Nada. He found elevated sugar levels, that he called ’slight’ – but put me on a diabetic diet that I followed for two years. I lost weight. I still was having panic attacks, as described. And so it goes – or rather went. I’m just glad I ain’t THERE any more. Whew!

that all seems so un-heavenly, and i feel ya. my first "my own panic attack" is as follows: i love the morning.  i love beautiful sunny days, always have.  i’m a "mornin’ girl". i was sittin’ in my $310 a month apartment in birmingham, alabama, i had a ’sculptured nail’ businsess… i was getting up to go to work and i looked outside… a beautiful sunny day, by all accounts….tha stuff my dreams were made of. nothing looked real, the sun wasn’t "shining" as it literally WAS… i couldn’t do anything but wonder if my heart beat was heard across all of alabama, and the outside of my apartment was surreal. i called one of my clients… also a friend, of course, and said "Laurie, please come here, i don’t know why, just come here", she was there in 3  minutes. i said "i think i’m feelin’ weird, i think i need ta go to the ER"… she took me there and i freaked….. i said "i can’t go in there, i can’t do anything, i’m in a world that is not my world"…. she said "what do i do?"  i said "anything, just something or maybe nothing, but how do i look?  do i look like i feel? take me around the block, get me something, but nothing i have to get out of the car for." she got me bottled water.. GOD, i hate water..( it’s a wonder i don’t have wrinkles.) Laurie ain’t yer regular gal, she’ll tell ya if yer lipstick’s on crooked, she’s REAL ! She said "you look just like you always do".. ok….. that scared tha SHIT outta me, i was wondering if i ALWAYS looked like i felt right THEN… still, the sun wasn’t shining.  it wasn’t a beautiful day.   but it WAS ! i finally went into the ER, to triage, and then to the Catholic hospital’s ER room and my blood pressure was like 210/130 or somethin’ off tha charts like that…. and i didn’t know what that meant and my heartbeat was off tha charts and they put little sticky things on me and i finally relaxed, looking at the monitor and calling nurses in every 2 minutes, i’m sure, to tell me if i was "normal"…. they were so sickened by me, i’m sure…. then i finally go to a restful sleep and i feel a hand touch me and i that.)  i FREAKED… i said "OMG, IS THIS MY LAST RIGHTS"? she said "noooooooo, i just want to make sure you’re ok, honey".  i didn’t believe her worth a SHIT and there i was back to square one.  i said "THERE’S NO NUN-CROSSING SIGN, GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME, I HATE YOU "… or something to that effect, the doctor came in and said… "i think you’re just having he said "yup"…. and sent me home with nothing more than’ah "yup". i recall calling my Mom and telling her about it and she was indignant. i talked to my Brother and he said "yer a freak". i recall calming down on my own and seeing the day a tad differently. i recall drinking a beer for some reason.  it was summer and the days were longer and it was starting to look like a beautiful day. i recall "seeing that beauty" and sitting down and being real still so that feeling didn’t go away… i recall Laurie being with me, but NOT with me… she was as confused as i was, she said "let’s do my nails"… i thought "YOU FUCKIN’ HEATHEN IDIOT".. but i said "no, tomorrow i’ll do them for free"… she sat there with me til dusk, which was around 8 or 9 pm that evening and said "let’s go out, let’s go to ‘The Nick’.."… as normal as that seemed, i had trouble saying "no", but somehow i did and she went and several people came from that neighborhood bar, a community dwelling, for 20 years, to "check on me"… and that ignited the whole thing over again. i somehow learned to breathe at that moment.  nobody taught me, it just ‘happened’. then ……. my Brother went off and whacked himself about 3 months later. (asswipe). could he have chosen another house besides mine and some one ELSE’s gun? nah, didn’t think so. i was not only kicked out of the ‘viewing’ among every political figure and "pop star" in alabama, i was banned from the funeral because i beat i was fine about his death, i actually SCREAMED ‘PULL THE PLUG AND DONATE HIS ORGANS, FUCK YOU MOTHERFUCKERS, *I’M* MAKING THE DECISIONS HERE AND DON’T EVEN COUNT ON ANYTHING ELSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE". i didn’t panic at all….. i wonder about that sometimes. my decisions were final, my parents didn’t DARE argue… and yes, i went to his funeral…   even against my will, as i was having "anxiety" at that point.  it was a HUGE deal… it WAS my first day. i wish it had been my last, actually. i just ate lortabs and drank a ton of booze, and nobody noticed.  til i MEEEEEEEEE". then the … read more »

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Question:

I am glad you were able to get enough medicine to last until your new insurance kicks in and that  you were treated decently at urgent care. I know from your last post you were really dreading going there because of the way they had treated you in the past. I dont have a clue what they meant by fit for duty when they put you on leave unless it means they are going to evaluate you to see if you are able to perform your job duties or if you need to remain on leave for awhile. You said you belong to a union and even though they havent been all that helpful you really do need to contact your job steward or union rep and let them know what is going on.  Where I worked,anytime you were called before management and you felt your job may on the line you were entitled to have a union rep with you to take notes during the meeting. that way you have written proof and a witness to what goes on and they cant say you said or did things you didnt do during the meeting. Its very sad that your mom wasnt more supportive of you with all you are going through. As far as her telling you they will drug test you,as long as the only drugs in your system are ones you have been prescribed for you,they cant hold that against you. I do wish you well in your struggle with all of this. I know its hard to fight the company with everything else you are dealing with right now but please dont give up. What they are doing is wrong. Its discrimination against someone who is ill and fighting to get better and thats just not right. Deb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – assistance. HELP! thank you all for responding.  i did go to urgent  care on new years eve, and finally was treated decently…. they gave me a month perscription of lorazapam to help with my switch over of health care providers and the problems i’m already having with that.  the doctor also signed a work note for me that day. but, as of 4pm today i’ve been put on paid admin leave, with a term used "fit for duty".  the director told me because i did  not call into work on new year’s eve that they have decided to do this route with me.  and, that they will not tolerate my absencent/tardies and issues basically.  that i have to be seen by the county’s doctor for a phsyciatric evaluation next monday that will last anywhere from 4-5 hours. then next thursday i go for an administrative interview. i’m a wreck. my mother which works 2 floors above had to throw in her comment on the way home (we carpool).. "THEY WILL DRUG TEST YOU……" and then proceeded to state that she is 52 years old she isn’t going to put up with this, blah blah.. and i feel so scared and i feel i’m going to lose my job, wherei  live, what self i have left.   and, i know i have no one to help me.  does anyone know what this term, "fit for duty" means especially with a government agency? i work for a county on the westcoast.  i am a wreck. and, my union wasn’t there, they haven’t been helpful.. i feel like i’m a freak and i just.. man, i just don’t know….. – wylderatttz ;(

Response:

thank you all for responding.  i did go to urgent  care on new years eve, and finally was treated decently…. they gave me a month perscription of lorazapam to help with my switch over of health care providers and the problems i’m already having with that.  the doctor also signed a work note for me that day. but, as of 4pm today i’ve been put on paid admin leave, with a term used "fit for duty".  the director told me because i did  not call into work on new year’s eve that they have decided to do this route with me.  and, that they will not tolerate my absencent/tardies and issues basically.  that i have to be seen by the county’s doctor for a phsyciatric evaluation next monday that will last anywhere from 4-5 hours. then next thursday i go for an administrative interview. i’m a wreck. my mother which works 2 floors above had to throw in her comment on the way home (we carpool).. "THEY WILL DRUG TEST YOU……" and then proceeded to state that she is 52 years old she isn’t going to put up with this, blah blah.. and i feel so scared and i feel i’m going to lose my job, wherei  live, what self i have left.   and, i know i have no one to help me.  does anyone know what this term, "fit for duty" means especially with a government agency? i work for a county on the westcoast.  i am a wreck. and, my union wasn’t there, they haven’t been helpful.. i feel like i’m a freak and i just.. man, i just don’t know….. – wylderatttz ;(

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f anyone can help with my confusing info above, please let me know.. i have to leave soon. thanks… WyldeRatttz

Hi Wylde, if you need a benzo and no one will give you one, you can buy them online. They are expensive that way, but hey, at least it’s available. AD

Response:

if your being discriminated against or harrassed, try to go to Office max and get a tiny digital recorder. In case you get fired or in case you can’t handle it , you have evidence. It may not be admissable in court but it may be for the boss or for the people who have to mediate these things.Anxiety is a bitch, don’t die. Losing everything has happened here, so you start anew . I am not hoping that happens but sometimes you have to take a step back and take care of your stress first. What good is a job if you have a heart attack from the stress and stress does kill.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i have literally 7 hours before my benefits with kaiser end.  and, i’m having such bad and imobilizing problems with my anxiety/panic attacks and now social phobia and agoriphobia that my life is going down hill faster than i can blink.  i didn’t go to work today.. i can’t take the pressure, the stress, the abuse and the constant treatment in the office due to my condition.  coworkers treat me so bad it’s ridiculous.. but, i know how kaiser is.  and, i’m a WRECK due to the fact i couldn’t leave the house today nor call into work, because i can’t take anymore abuse, disastication, harrassment, discrimination and overall attitude towards me at work anymore.  the only hope i have to help myself in this particular situation is to get a dr.’s note for today.  ( i hope and pray they work with me..)  i have no anxiety meds until who knows when because i’m changing providers.  but i need some help really bad these days.  but, everytime i ask for a perscription at urgent care or behavioral health, they drill me and treat me like i’mm a loser, fiending animal hungry for benzo’s…. which is not the case. any suggestions on how to address the urgent care doctors to help me and understand what i’m talking about and the importance of being helped right now? i have to leave here in a few minutes.. and it’s so diifficult. i’m losing everything in my life due to these social phobia, agoraphobia, panic and anxiety disorders i have.  and, everytime i try to get help i get denied, turned away or blown off. if anyone can help with my confusing info above, please let me know.. i have to leave soon. thanks… WyldeRatttz

Response:

I am sorry you are  having such a hard time right now. You should not have to put up with any harrassment or discrimination in the workplace at all. It doesnt matter if it is a manager or another employee. Everyone is entitled to be able to go to work and do their job without being subjected to this kind of treatment. You have enough to deal with right now without this being added to it. Most companys have a number that they must provide to their employees for the EEO office in your area to call with any complaints of harrassment or abuse. Believe me they do take these complaints seriously. You might want to give them a call and let them be aware of  what it going on in your office. As far as being able to get the urgent care doctor to prescribe your anxiety medicines,you might talk to them about getting into some type of therapy to help you with the anxiety and panic attacks and  agorophobia. With everything you have to deal with right now it sounds like you do need to be talking to a good therapist who could help you to deal with everything and also prescribe the right medication. I do hope you are able to get the help you need with the problems at work and with your medicine. Deb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -HELP! i have literally 7 hours before my benefits with kaiser end.  and, i’m having such bad and imobilizing problems with my anxiety/panic attacks and now social phobia and agoriphobia that my life is going down hill faster than i can blink. i didn’t go to work today.. i can’t take the pressure, the stress, the abuse and the constant treatment in the office due to my condition.  coworkers treat me so bad it’s ridiculous.. but, i know how kaiser is.  and, i’m a WRECK due to the fact i couldn’t leave the house today nor call into work, because i can’t take anymore abuse, disastication, harrassment, discrimination and overall attitude towards me at work anymore.  the only hope i have to help myself in this particular situation is to get a dr.’s note for today.  ( i hope and pray they work with me..)  i have no anxiety meds until who knows when because i’m changing providers.  but i need some help really bad these days.  but, everytime i ask for a perscription at urgent care or behavioral health, they drill me and treat me like i’mm a loser, fiending animal hungry for benzo’s…. which is not the case. any suggestions on how to address the urgent care doctors to help me and understand what i’m talking about and the importance of being helped right now? i have to leave here in a few minutes.. and it’s so diifficult. i’m losing everything in my life due to these social phobia, agoraphobia, panic and anxiety disorders i have.  and, everytime i try to get help i get denied, turned away or blown off.   if anyone can help with my confusing info above, please let me know.. i have to leave soon. thanks… WyldeRatttz

Response:

i have literally 7 hours before my benefits with kaiser end.  and, i’m having such bad and imobilizing problems with my anxiety/panic attacks and now social phobia and agoriphobia that my life is going down hill faster than i can blink.  i didn’t go to work today.. i can’t take the pressure, the stress, the abuse and the constant treatment in the office due to my condition.  coworkers treat me so bad it’s ridiculous.. but, i know how kaiser is.  and, i’m a WRECK due to the fact i couldn’t leave the house today nor call into work, because i can’t take anymore abuse, disastication, harrassment, discrimination and overall attitude towards me at work anymore.  the only hope i have to help myself in this particular situation is to get a dr.’s note for today.  ( i hope and pray they work with me..)  i have no anxiety meds until who knows when because i’m changing providers.  but i need some help really bad these days.  but, everytime i ask for a perscription at urgent care or behavioral health, they drill me and treat me like i’mm a loser, fiending animal hungry for benzo’s…. which is not the case. any suggestions on how to address the urgent care doctors to help me and understand what i’m talking about and the importance of being helped right now? i have to leave here in a few minutes.. and it’s so diifficult. i’m losing everything in my life due to these social phobia, agoraphobia, panic and anxiety disorders i have.  and, everytime i try to get help i get denied, turned away or blown off.   if anyone can help with my confusing info above, please let me know.. i have to leave soon. thanks… WyldeRatttz

Response:

Question:

This morning I had to drive my son to the oral surgeon two towns away from us (he had all 4 wisdom teeth out!).  We had to go at rush hour, 7:25 a.m., on the 8-lane stretch of busy highway where I had a huge PA last spring. And I have not been feeling well, physically, the last 3-4 days… So I was thinking: Hmmm, conditions are not optimal for this drive. I took .25 mg Xanax when I first got up, but that is a minimal dose for me. Both driving out there and driving home later, I did fine. My breathing was regular, my heart didn’t race, I drove over 60 mph at times (speed is a big trigger for my panic). It’s amazing to me how panic attacks can come and go! Also:  I’m glad I kept getting on the highway for short easy trips even when my panic was bad last month. Taking .5 mg of Xanax when things were bad really helped me keep going with this. I thank you all for you encouragement. How is everyone else doing with stuff like driving? (or whatever your worst trigger is?)  I’m hoping maybe there is some antipanic gestalt helping all of us right now!  :-) xxoo Anne — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Anne, This is terrific!  So glad you were able to have a "normal" drive to and from the appointment.  How is Andres doing? My driving is doing fairly well.  Last night I drove an additional 1 1/2 on a 2 lane highway.  Surprised the hell out of me.  And I did do well considering that the last time my anxiety was up and I couldn’t even do the 1/2 mile.  Yes, anxiety is an odd creature… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This morning I had to drive my son to the oral surgeon two towns away from us (he had all 4 wisdom teeth out!).  We had to go at rush hour, 7:25 a.m., on the 8-lane stretch of busy highway where I had a huge PA last spring. And I have not been feeling well, physically, the last 3-4 days… So I was thinking: Hmmm, conditions are not optimal for this drive. I took .25 mg Xanax when I first got up, but that is a minimal dose for me. Both driving out there and driving home later, I did fine. My breathing was regular, my heart didn’t race, I drove over 60 mph at times (speed is a big trigger for my panic). It’s amazing to me how panic attacks can come and go! Also:  I’m glad I kept getting on the highway for short easy trips even when my panic was bad last month. Taking .5 mg of Xanax when things were bad really helped me keep going with this. I thank you all for you encouragement. How is everyone else doing with stuff like driving? (or whatever your worst trigger is?)  I’m hoping maybe there is some antipanic gestalt helping all of us right now!  :-) xxoo Anne — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

This morning I had to drive my son to the oral surgeon two towns away from us (he had all 4 wisdom teeth out!).  We had to go at rush hour, 7:25 a.m., on the 8-lane stretch of busy highway where I had a huge PA last spring.

Hi Anne! I always use to remember exactly where I had a PA on the freeway several years ago. But since my PAs went away, thanks to getting back on Klonopin 3 mg/day, I now just drive right past the spot without thinking about PAs. BTW, congratulations on making the drive without a PA!   It’s amazing to me how panic attacks can come and go! I start to get PAs when my overall level of anxiety is higher than usual. And that is often secondary to feeling depressed. Chip — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Yayyyyyyyy Anne!  This is great.  I’m so happy you did so well on the highway especially not feeling well.  {{{{{Anne}}}}} Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This morning I had to drive my son to the oral surgeon two towns away from us (he had all 4 wisdom teeth out!).  We had to go at rush hour, 7:25 a.m., on the 8-lane stretch of busy highway where I had a huge PA last spring. And I have not been feeling well, physically, the last 3-4 days… So I was thinking: Hmmm, conditions are not optimal for this drive. I took .25 mg Xanax when I first got up, but that is a minimal dose for me. Both driving out there and driving home later, I did fine. My breathing was regular, my heart didn’t race, I drove over 60 mph at times (speed is a big trigger for my panic). It’s amazing to me how panic attacks can come and go! Also:  I’m glad I kept getting on the highway for short easy trips even when my panic was bad last month. Taking .5 mg of Xanax when things were bad really helped me keep going with this. I thank you all for you encouragement. How is everyone else doing with stuff like driving? (or whatever your worst trigger is?)  I’m hoping maybe there is some antipanic gestalt helping all of us right now!  :-) xxoo Anne

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Very good, Anne :  ) I’ve been doing OK with driving although I haven’t had to go on a major highway or bridge for a long time.  I’m not avoiding them, I’m just staying local for now :  ) Tony — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Yayyyyyyyyyy!! This is great news, Anne!!  I’m so glad to hear it went well!! MikeH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This morning I had to drive my son to the oral surgeon two towns away from us (he had all 4 wisdom teeth out!).  We had to go at rush hour, 7:25 a.m., on the 8-lane stretch of busy highway where I had a huge PA last spring. And I have not been feeling well, physically, the last 3-4 days… So I was thinking: Hmmm, conditions are not optimal for this drive. I took .25 mg Xanax when I first got up, but that is a minimal dose for me. Both driving out there and driving home later, I did fine. My breathing was regular, my heart didn’t race, I drove over 60 mph at times (speed is a big trigger for my panic). It’s amazing to me how panic attacks can come and go! Also:  I’m glad I kept getting on the highway for short easy trips even when my panic was bad last month. Taking .5 mg of Xanax when things were bad really helped me keep going with this. I thank you all for you encouragement. How is everyone else doing with stuff like driving? (or whatever your worst trigger is?)  I’m hoping maybe there is some antipanic gestalt helping all of us right now!  :-)

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – that are too tight blurted out: Both driving out there and driving home later, I did fine. I feel the need to say something here, Anne. Earlier on, I felt that going back on  medication was your best bet, as it appeared to me that it had helped you so much, and you may have been showing signs that it was necessary for the long term (IOW, the initial anxieties had returned w/o the Celexa). D’oh! Yes, HAD helped you! There comes a point, IMO, where the exposure with medication can (or should?) become exposure ‘without’ the medication. Everything you’d learned during the time on medication (and I suggest this only works for people who WORK at things – as in taking recovery/driving [in this case] seriously as a ‘full time job!’) is retained ‘because’ you’d worked on it as a job. Now, without Celexa, you’re experiencing panic at times, but the lessons learned (or rather, being put to use) are a good part of what recovery is about. Now it may be more difficult and take more work, but that’s the key, I think. The medication helped get you onto highways and over bridges. Your cognitive and behavioral ‘learned’ skills helped then – and now they are pretty much all you have. It should be expected that it would be more difficult at times now, since it’s a ‘work in progress’….. and I must say you’ve been handling that very well by continuing on with episodes of anxiety. I don’t know HOW one would recover without doing as you have been. OK, kill me. I ‘think’ I said something nice — E.l l i o t t

We won’t kill you Elliott, but I am curious, are you on any AD’s or benzos? I can’t remember.  Forgive me.  If not, PLEASE tell me how you overcame it. Thanks, Vicki — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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:Both driving out there and driving home later, I did fine. My breathing :was regular, my heart didn’t race, I drove over 60 mph at times (speed is :a big trigger for my panic). : :It’s amazing to me how panic attacks can come and go! Bravo Anne! You did good Panic never makes any sense.  When we expect it, it doesn`t show up…… and when we least expect it, it nails us. Jackie ~*~Autumn is a second spring when every leaf is a flower~*~ — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

 I went though this before in the past and it just went away on its own, Ignorance is bless,(wouldn’t even admit to myself I had anxiety)  Was a lot more difficult this time(stress was worse) but I am going for long lasting cure and the only way to do it is with my eyes wide open  Has been a while since my last panic attack (not pushing it to much), my anxiety, still a little heighten, but relative to our condition is managable and the stress keep melting away  Maybe one day I meet you half way for a cup of decaffinated coffee Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This morning I had to drive my son to the oral surgeon two towns away from us (he had all 4 wisdom teeth out!).  We had to go at rush hour, 7:25 a.m., on the 8-lane stretch of busy highway where I had a huge PA last spring. And I have not been feeling well, physically, the last 3-4 days… So I was thinking: Hmmm, conditions are not optimal for this drive. I took .25 mg Xanax when I first got up, but that is a minimal dose for me. Both driving out there and driving home later, I did fine. My breathing was regular, my heart didn’t race, I drove over 60 mph at times (speed is a big trigger for my panic). It’s amazing to me how panic attacks can come and go! Also:  I’m glad I kept getting on the highway for short easy trips even when my panic was bad last month. Taking .5 mg of Xanax when things were bad really helped me keep going with this. I thank you all for you encouragement. How is everyone else doing with stuff like driving? (or whatever your worst trigger is?)  I’m hoping maybe there is some antipanic gestalt helping all of us right now!  :-) xxoo Anne — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been doing some research to find any mention of an anxiety-attack variation I often have, but I can’t seem to find what I’m looking for. Perhaps someone else here might have an idea.  Let me explain this variation. Although I am not clausterphobic (pardon spelling) – I have no problem in tight spaces, per se – I run into very uncomfortable anxiety in specific situations that involve people behind in somewhat close proximity (mainly people I don’t know). Some examples are sitting in a theater seat, or any middle or aisle seat on a plane.  If I’m in an arena or theater, I must sit in the last row, else I get the chills, cold sweat, and a very uncomfortable feeling coupled with the urge to stand up and move somewhere else. If there are empty rows behind me, there is no problem.  In planes, I am generally fine if I sit in a window seat, even on a full flight.  I can tolerate an aisle seat if no other seats behind me (unless empty). So I cannot find reference to this sort of anxiety, or how to control it.  It doesn’t seem to fit any of the more common themes.

Oh my god–I thought I was the only one with this!  I call it "gunslinger syndrome" b/c I always have to have my back to the wall, so to speak.  It’s the same for me everyplace I go–I must have the window seat in the airplane, sit in the last row in the theater, sit facing the other people in a restaurant (if possible).  I joke that I was a gunslinger in a former life.  Do you also have to be able to see the door in a restaurant or other public place? I wish I knew what causes it and what the term for it is.  But I’m relieved to know that someone else feels the same way. Dawn

Response:

Hi Ralston, I have agoraphobia and have problems in some of the situations you mention. I avoid cinemas or theatres but when I sit in a venue I choose an aisle seat, preferably towards the back. This is to afford me an easy exit if necessary, and to prevent me feeling closed in. I try to sit in the aisle seat of a plane for the same reason. Have you thought about what concerns you about people being behind you? What do you fear might happen? love Meryl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been doing some research to find any mention of an anxiety-attack variation I often have, but I can’t seem to find what I’m looking for. Perhaps someone else here might have an idea.  Let me explain this variation. Although I am not clausterphobic (pardon spelling) – I have no problem in tight spaces, per se – I run into very uncomfortable anxiety in specific situations that involve people behind in somewhat close proximity (mainly people I don’t know). Some examples are sitting in a theater seat, or any middle or aisle seat on a plane.  If I’m in an arena or theater, I must sit in the last row, else I get the chills, cold sweat, and a very uncomfortable feeling coupled with the urge to stand up and move somewhere else. If there are empty rows behind me, there is no problem.  In planes, I am generally fine if I sit in a window seat, even on a full flight.  I can tolerate an aisle seat if no other seats behind me (unless empty). So I cannot find reference to this sort of anxiety, or how to control it.  It doesn’t seem to fit any of the more common themes.

Response:

Me too! I think of it as the "emergency exit" plan.  I need to be able to get out asap in case something happens. And getting out with the minimal disturbance to others, so I sit at the back and aisle ends etc. I have GAD, so I worry about everything. And I’m social phobic – dont want to look stupid or draw attention to myself if i can help it

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Ralston, I have agoraphobia and have problems in some of the situations you mention. I avoid cinemas or theatres but when I sit in a venue I choose an aisle seat, preferably towards the back. This is to afford me an easy exit if necessary, and to prevent me feeling closed in. I try to sit in the aisle seat of a plane for the same reason. Have you thought about what concerns you about people being behind you? What do you fear might happen? love Meryl I’ve been doing some research to find any mention of an anxiety-attack variation I often have, but I can’t seem to find what I’m looking for. Perhaps someone else here might have an idea.  Let me explain this variation. Although I am not clausterphobic (pardon spelling) – I have no problem in tight spaces, per se – I run into very uncomfortable anxiety in specific situations that involve people behind in somewhat close proximity (mainly people I don’t know). Some examples are sitting in a theater seat, or any middle or aisle seat on a plane.  If I’m in an arena or theater, I must sit in the last row, else I get the chills, cold sweat, and a very uncomfortable feeling coupled with the urge to stand up and move somewhere else. If there are empty rows behind me, there is no problem.  In planes, I am generally fine if I sit in a window seat, even on a full flight.  I can tolerate an aisle seat if no other seats behind me (unless empty). So I cannot find reference to this sort of anxiety, or how to control it.  It doesn’t seem to fit any of the more common themes.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been doing some research to find any mention of an anxiety-attack variation I often have, but I can’t seem to find what I’m looking for. Perhaps someone else here might have an idea.  Let me explain this variation. Although I am not clausterphobic (pardon spelling) – I have no problem in tight spaces, per se – I run into very uncomfortable anxiety in specific situations that involve people behind in somewhat close proximity (mainly people I don’t know). Some examples are sitting in a theater seat, or any middle or aisle seat on a plane.  If I’m in an arena or theater, I must sit in the last row, else I get the chills, cold sweat, and a very uncomfortable feeling coupled with the urge to stand up and move somewhere else. If there are empty rows behind me, there is no problem.  In planes, I am generally fine if I sit in a window seat, even on a full flight.  I can tolerate an aisle seat if no other seats behind me (unless empty). So I cannot find reference to this sort of anxiety, or how to control it.  It doesn’t seem to fit any of the more common themes.

I have had these feelings at times but not as intense as you describe. Sometimes I want to be near people, other times I prefer to be away and on my own. Even if it doesn’t fit into the common variety anxiety symptoms it doesn’t mean you can’t work through it using therapy. Have you tried Cognitive behavioural therapy? Are you taking any medication to alleviate the anxiety? It is not easy to understand why we think and behave the way we do. You have identified what triggers your anxiety and that is a good start. I hope you have a good anxiety therapist to help you manage the anx. Vanessa

Response:

I’ve been doing some research to find any mention of an anxiety-attack variation I often have, but I can’t seem to find what I’m looking for. Perhaps someone else here might have an idea.  Let me explain this variation. Although I am not clausterphobic (pardon spelling) – I have no problem in tight spaces, per se – I run into very uncomfortable anxiety in specific situations that involve people behind in somewhat close proximity (mainly people I don’t know). Some examples are sitting in a theater seat, or any middle or aisle seat on a plane.  If I’m in an arena or theater, I must sit in the last row, else I get the chills, cold sweat, and a very uncomfortable feeling coupled with the urge to stand up and move somewhere else. If there are empty rows behind me, there is no problem.  In planes, I am generally fine if I sit in a window seat, even on a full flight.  I can tolerate an aisle seat if no other seats behind me (unless empty). So I cannot find reference to this sort of anxiety, or how to control it.  It doesn’t seem to fit any of the more common themes.

Response:

Question:

Doug, That is so true. I’ve often said the same thing. I don’t even care that Paxil causes withdrwal symptoms when coming off it, because I plan on being on it for the rest of my life… even if it is ten years less than if I wasn’t taking the paxil. Sissy

It might be ten years more. Plus, untreated panic disorder and depression has a high suicide rate. Chip

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doug, That is so true. I’ve often said the same thing. I don’t even care that Paxil causes withdrwal symptoms when coming off it, because I plan on being on it for the rest of my life… even if it is ten years less than if I wasn’t taking the paxil. Sissy It might be ten years more. Plus, untreated panic disorder and depression has a high suicide rate. Chip

Yep. And the stress of anxiety isn’t doing your cardio-vascular or immune systems any good either. Ian

Response:

: I’m not intentionally :being facetious.  It’s just that I’ve often thought that "if it were :possible", I’d trade my sp for pd.  Please don’t misunderstand;  I :realize that pd disrupts thousands of lives too. I know what you mean, the grass is always greener on the other side sorta speak I think every anxiety disorder is horrific, disabling in their where you discuss being able to work though it was very hard for you. I often envied, really envied you for at least being able to do how hard it must have really been for you.  I`m sure there is a thing or two that I can do with relative ease socially that you would envy. Jackie ~*~any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee~*~ ~John Donne~

Response:

Before any of you take any of the "innocent" SSRI’s, I suggest you take a look at this first: http://www.drugawareness.org/Oldsite/survivors.html and http://www.drugawareness.org/Archives/Survivors/Awake_for_800_Hours_S… tml Maybe you’ll reconsider after reading some of this? m.g.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :Are the benefits of Paxil worth going through some of the bad side effects? I think it depends on the person, how effective paxil is for them and what the side-effects are and what they are willing to tolerate in exchange for good control over their anxiety disorder. You just won`t know unless you always get off paxil if you don`t like it. Just make sure to start at a low dose like 5mgs, or 2.5 if you are super sensitive to the side-effects of meds and wean slowly until you reach your prescribed dose. Using a benzo such as Xanax can make the weaning process more tolerable. Give paxil 6 to 8 weeks to kick in, side-effects will hopefully have diminished or gone away completely by this time as well. I`ve been on paxil for more than 4 years and to me it was worth the few side-effects I had and still have…..like fatigue, dry mouth and vivid dreaming, small price to pay for having my life back. :Is Paxil really good for treating just Social Phobia? I take paxil for panic disorder but I`ve read and heard that paxil is a effective med for social anxiety.  Will it be a good med for you? No one Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ Just to reiterate what Jackie said about Paxil being effective for social phobia too:  I’ve had sp for all of my adult life and discovered Paxil perhaps 6 years ago.  I took this med off and on, mostly on,  for nearly 5 years.  It was excellent at eliminating anticipatory and chronic anxiety, but was not able to prevent situational panic attacks (at least in my case). If you also have situational panic attacks, you may need a benzodiazepine to complement the Paxil.  OTOH, in the social phobia newsgroup, a few posters have stated that Paxil also reduced or stopped their panic attacks too.  Just goes to show that people can react differently to the same med. I gave up Paxil because of an inordinate number of side effects, which probably isn’t the norm, and switched over to all benzos.  That said, if I could no longer take benzos, I definitely would reconsider Paxil in spite of the side effects I experienced.  BTW, if you decide to try Paxil and weight gain begins to become an issue, attack it immediately before it gets out of hand.  Cut your caloric intake about 10 to 15% and begin a mild exercise program.  I have absolutely zero data stating what percent of people gain weight with Paxil, but a number of folks apparently do based on posts I’ve read and my own experience. Even so, the manufacturer of Paxil states in television ads that loss of appetite may be a side effect, but they make no reference to weight gain.  The good news, though, is if you gain weight with Paxil, then stop taking the drug, over time the lbs. will drop off.  Mine did. Doug

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :Is Paxil really good for treating just Social Phobia? I take paxil for panic disorder but I`ve read and heard that paxil is a effective med for social anxiety.  Will it be a good med for you? No one Jackie Paxil is s good a med for Social Anxiety Disorder as its peer meds AFAIK. But I believe the first choice treatment is *Cognitive Behavioral Therapy* (CBT), first one-to-one with a therapist and then in a group. A med like Paxil can support therapy of course when it’s needed. Just my 2c Philip

Philip, My experience with sp has been that until you lessen the anxiety with meds, it’s unlikely that you’ll be able to even see a therapist, let alone take CBT.  The anxiety is just too great with sp people when dealing with "authority" figures, among countless others. That brings up a question I’ve always wondered about.  Is social phobia with situational panic attacks equal to, less than or more difficult to cope with than panic disorder?  I’m not intentionally being facetious.  It’s just that I’ve often thought that "if it were possible", I’d trade my sp for pd.  Please don’t misunderstand;  I realize that pd disrupts thousands of lives too. Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before any of you take any of the "innocent" SSRI’s, I suggest you take a look at this first: http://www.drugawareness.org/Oldsite/survivors.html and http://www.drugawareness.org/Archives/Survivors/Awake_for_800_Hours_S…. h tml Maybe you’ll reconsider after reading some of this? m.g. m.g., Nope.  I and thousands of others are proof that prescription meds, taken responsibly, can dramatically improve the lives of severe anxiety sufferers  Please don’t bother to counter with an argument saying that I may live 10 years less, or whatever, because of these meds.  Do you really think I’d prefer living a "long and healthy" life shut up in a room as opposed to taking medication and having at least a semblance of a normal life. Doug :Are the benefits of Paxil worth going through some of the bad side effects? I think it depends on the person, how effective paxil is for them and what the side-effects are and what they are willing to tolerate in exchange for good control over their anxiety disorder. You just won`t know unless you always get off paxil if you don`t like it. Just make sure to start at a low dose like 5mgs, or 2.5 if you are super sensitive to the side-effects of meds and wean slowly until you reach your prescribed dose. Using a benzo such as Xanax can make the weaning process more tolerable. Give paxil 6 to 8 weeks to kick in, side-effects will hopefully have diminished or gone away completely by this time as well. I`ve been on paxil for more than 4 years and to me it was worth the few side-effects I had and still have…..like fatigue, dry mouth and vivid dreaming, small price to pay for having my life back. :Is Paxil really good for treating just Social Phobia? I take paxil for panic disorder but I`ve read and heard that paxil is a effective med for social anxiety.  Will it be a good med for you? No one Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ Just to reiterate what Jackie said about Paxil being effective for social phobia too:  I’ve had sp for all of my adult life and discovered Paxil perhaps 6 years ago.  I took this med off and on, mostly on,  for nearly 5 years.  It was excellent at eliminating anticipatory and chronic anxiety, but was not able to prevent situational panic attacks (at least in my case). If you also have situational panic attacks, you may need a benzodiazepine to complement the Paxil.  OTOH, in the social phobia newsgroup, a few posters have stated that Paxil also reduced or stopped their panic attacks too.  Just goes to show that people can react differently to the same med. I gave up Paxil because of an inordinate number of side effects, which probably isn’t the norm, and switched over to all benzos.  That said, if I could no longer take benzos, I definitely would reconsider Paxil in spite of the side effects I experienced.  BTW, if you decide to try Paxil and weight gain begins to become an issue, attack it immediately before it gets out of hand.  Cut your caloric intake about 10 to 15% and begin a mild exercise program.  I have absolutely zero data stating what percent of people gain weight with Paxil, but a number of folks apparently do based on posts I’ve read and my own experience. Even so, the manufacturer of Paxil states in television ads that loss of appetite may be a side effect, but they make no reference to weight gain.  The good news, though, is if you gain weight with Paxil, then stop taking the drug, over time the lbs. will drop off.  Mine did. Doug

Doug, That is so true. I’ve often said the same thing. I don’t even care that Paxil causes withdrwal symptoms when coming off it, because I plan on being on it for the rest of my life… even if it is ten years less than if I wasn’t taking the paxil. Sissy

Response:

Before any of you take any of the "innocent" SSRI’s, I suggest you take a look at this first: http://www.drugawareness.org/Oldsite/survivors.html and http://www.drugawareness.org/Archives/Survivors/Awake_for_800_Hours_S… tml Maybe you’ll reconsider after reading some of this? m.g.

m.g., Nope.  I and thousands of others are proof that prescription meds, taken responsibly, can dramatically improve the lives of severe anxiety sufferers  Please don’t bother to counter with an argument saying that I may live 10 years less, or whatever, because of these meds.  Do you really think I’d prefer living a "long and healthy" life shut up in a room as opposed to taking medication and having at least a semblance of a normal life. Doug   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :Are the benefits of Paxil worth going through some of the bad side effects? I think it depends on the person, how effective paxil is for them and what the side-effects are and what they are willing to tolerate in exchange for good control over their anxiety disorder. You just won`t know unless you always get off paxil if you don`t like it. Just make sure to start at a low dose like 5mgs, or 2.5 if you are super sensitive to the side-effects of meds and wean slowly until you reach your prescribed dose. Using a benzo such as Xanax can make the weaning process more tolerable. Give paxil 6 to 8 weeks to kick in, side-effects will hopefully have diminished or gone away completely by this time as well. I`ve been on paxil for more than 4 years and to me it was worth the few side-effects I had and still have…..like fatigue, dry mouth and vivid dreaming, small price to pay for having my life back. :Is Paxil really good for treating just Social Phobia? I take paxil for panic disorder but I`ve read and heard that paxil is a effective med for social anxiety.  Will it be a good med for you? No one Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ Just to reiterate what Jackie said about Paxil being effective for social phobia too:  I’ve had sp for all of my adult life and discovered Paxil perhaps 6 years ago.  I took this med off and on, mostly on,  for nearly 5 years.  It was excellent at eliminating anticipatory and chronic anxiety, but was not able to prevent situational panic attacks (at least in my case). If you also have situational panic attacks, you may need a benzodiazepine to complement the Paxil.  OTOH, in the social phobia newsgroup, a few posters have stated that Paxil also reduced or stopped their panic attacks too.  Just goes to show that people can react differently to the same med. I gave up Paxil because of an inordinate number of side effects, which probably isn’t the norm, and switched over to all benzos.  That said, if I could no longer take benzos, I definitely would reconsider Paxil in spite of the side effects I experienced.  BTW, if you decide to try Paxil and weight gain begins to become an issue, attack it immediately before it gets out of hand.  Cut your caloric intake about 10 to 15% and begin a mild exercise program.  I have absolutely zero data stating what percent of people gain weight with Paxil, but a number of folks apparently do based on posts I’ve read and my own experience. Even so, the manufacturer of Paxil states in television ads that loss of appetite may be a side effect, but they make no reference to weight gain.  The good news, though, is if you gain weight with Paxil, then stop taking the drug, over time the lbs. will drop off.  Mine did. Doug

Response:

Jackie, Thanks for the kind words re. work.  As for your last sentence, I’ll bet there’s a dozen things you can do socially with relative ease that I’d be envious of.   : )    I think Margo is undoubtedly correct in that severe anxiety given any name is still horrible to live with (paraphrased). Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I’m not intentionally :being facetious.  It’s just that I’ve often thought that "if it were :possible", I’d trade my sp for pd.  Please don’t misunderstand;  I :realize that pd disrupts thousands of lives too. I know what you mean, the grass is always greener on the other side sorta speak I think every anxiety disorder is horrific, disabling in their where you discuss being able to work though it was very hard for you. I often envied, really envied you for at least being able to do how hard it must have really been for you.  I`m sure there is a thing or two that I can do with relative ease socially that you would envy. Jackie ~*~any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee~*~ ~John Donne~

Response:

Ah, yes, the old anti-SSRI bozos.  Did you know that the director of the organization behind this site sells books?  It’s sort of like making a "Freddie the 13th on Halloween" movie.  Fright sells. Some of their claims:         SSRIs are the same as PCP and LSD.  LOL         SSRIs are behind the rise of such things as diabetes and                 un-wed mothers.  LOL         SSRIs work by increasing seratonin.  LOL As you can see, they can claim a lot of things, but can they claim truth and rational thinking? tnx, drr Before any of you take any of the "innocent" SSRI’s, I suggest you take a look at this first: http://www.drugawareness.org/Oldsite/survivors.html and http://www.drugawareness.org/Archives/Survivors/Awake_for_800_Hours_S… tml Maybe you’ll reconsider after reading some of this? m.g.

– The second nicest guy on the internet Need the ASAP Mini-FAQ? A copy is at www.drrhodes.org

Response:

Before any of you take any of the "innocent" SSRI’s, I suggest you take a look at this first: http://www.drugawareness.org/Oldsite/survivors.html and http://www.drugawareness.org/Archives/Survivors/Awake_for_800_Hours_S… tml Maybe you’ll reconsider after reading some of this? m.g.

Don’t get scared off by the *information* on these sites. *Drugawareness* is a rabid anti-SSRI enterprise led by somebody posing as a doctor which she isn’t. Taking a med is taking a risk and therefore we should be closely monitored by a skilled pdoc. There can be little doubt that SSRI’s are vastly overprescribed for the wrong reasons just like benzos used to be. There *are* documented side effects and they *do* cause *dependence* and should be tapered off of slowly. The marketing is aggressive and sometimes *disinformation* or lack of information is given on the insert leaflets.   Unfortunately there are always people who have a knack for throwing away the baby with the bathwater and who will do anything to *demonize* a group of meds. We had lots of visits of the *Anti Benzo Squad* here and now we have the *Anti SSRI Squad*. So what else is new? Moreover, most stories both groups cook up are not about anxiety sufferers. And no, "M.G." with your telling email address, I am *not* going to enter any heated discussion so you can spare yourself the effort of replying.   Philip (who as a rule – and as a layman <g – prefers TCA’s to SSRI’s but feels that the SSRI’s do have a place in the treatment of depression and anxiety disorders) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :Are the benefits of Paxil worth going through some of the bad side effects? I think it depends on the person, how effective paxil is for them and what the side-effects are and what they are willing to tolerate in exchange for good control over their anxiety disorder. You just won`t know unless you always get off paxil if you don`t like it. Just make sure to start at a low dose like 5mgs, or 2.5 if you are super sensitive to the side-effects of meds and wean slowly until you reach your prescribed dose. Using a benzo such as Xanax can make the weaning process more tolerable. Give paxil 6 to 8 weeks to kick in, side-effects will hopefully have diminished or gone away completely by this time as well. I`ve been on paxil for more than 4 years and to me it was worth the few side-effects I had and still have…..like fatigue, dry mouth and vivid dreaming, small price to pay for having my life back. :Is Paxil really good for treating just Social Phobia? I take paxil for panic disorder but I`ve read and heard that paxil is a effective med for social anxiety.  Will it be a good med for you? No one Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ Just to reiterate what Jackie said about Paxil being effective for social phobia too:  I’ve had sp for all of my adult life and discovered Paxil perhaps 6 years ago.  I took this med off and on, mostly on,  for nearly 5 years.  It was excellent at eliminating anticipatory and chronic anxiety, but was not able to prevent situational panic attacks (at least in my case). If you also have situational panic attacks, you may need a benzodiazepine to complement the Paxil.  OTOH, in the social phobia newsgroup, a few posters have stated that Paxil also reduced or stopped their panic attacks too.  Just goes to show that people can react differently to the same med. I gave up Paxil because of an inordinate number of side effects, which probably isn’t the norm, and switched over to all benzos.  That said, if I could no longer take benzos, I definitely would reconsider Paxil in spite of the side effects I experienced.  BTW, if you decide to try Paxil and weight gain begins to become an issue, attack it immediately before it gets out of hand.  Cut your caloric intake about 10 to 15% and begin a mild exercise program.  I have absolutely zero data stating what percent of people gain weight with Paxil, but a number of folks apparently do based on posts I’ve read and my own experience. Even so, the manufacturer of Paxil states in television ads that loss of appetite may be a side effect, but they make no reference to weight gain.  The good news, though, is if you gain weight with Paxil, then stop taking the drug, over time the lbs. will drop off.  Mine did. Doug

Response:

:I wish I had known I could have cut my pill in half.  My Dr started me out :at 10mg and I flipped.  I quit after 4 days.  I only wish I had found this :newsgroup prior to taking the meds.  That experience has kept me away from :ever taking meds again.   Dear Lady, Sadly, there are so many people that have been scared away from ever trying a antidepressant again because of high starting doses and weaning too quickly. I`m really sorry this happened to you ( :On a good note, my anxiety and panic attacks have :decreased tremendously.   Now that is great news!! ) Jackie ~*~any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee~*~ ~John Donne~

Response:

:Before any of you take any of the "innocent" SSRI’s, :I suggest you take a look at this first: :http://www.drugawareness.org/Oldsite/survivors.html and :http://www.drugawareness.org/Archives/Survivors/Awake_for_800_Hours_S… :tml alot of misinformation, tons of bullshit there. The woman who calls her self Dr. Tracy is no doctor. I suggest anyone tempted to go to these links think twice, or do a Google search on Dr. Tracy and Drugawareness, better yet talk to your doctor about your concerns. You are no better than the anti-med trolls that have invaded these newsgroups trying to scare the living shit out of people about the meds they take. It would be one thing if the info was true and Please check out my link for you ) http://users.pandora.be/p0p0/youare.swf ~*~any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee~*~ ~John Donne~

Response:

 Is social phobia with situational panic attacks equal to, less than or more difficult to cope with than panic disorder?

the discomfort is equivocal-anxiety in intense states is the same regadless if it is socially driven or symptom driven-there is also much overlap between being socially cognizant and anxious as well as having proximal anxieties LM

Response:

I wish I had known I could have cut my pill in half.  My Dr started me out at 10mg and I flipped.  I quit after 4 days.  I only wish I had found this newsgroup prior to taking the meds.  That experience has kept me away from ever taking meds again.  On a good note, my anxiety and panic attacks have decreased tremendously.  When I have to go somewhere, I feel them kick in, but by the time I get there, I’m fine. I just need a little push to get me going.  When I became a SAHM, I started to notice them more frequently. Winter months are the worst.  I’m just grateful the seasons have changed and I’m out more often.  I have a few months to plan my winter months to keep me busy. If only I had some ideas!  I guess you can tell…I don’t like the winter…I hate to be cold and moving is not an option.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :Is Paxil really good for treating just Social Phobia? I take paxil for panic disorder but I`ve read and heard that paxil is a effective med for social anxiety.  Will it be a good med for you? No one Jackie Paxil is s good a med for Social Anxiety Disorder as its peer meds AFAIK. But I believe the first choice treatment is *Cognitive Behavioral Therapy* (CBT), first one-to-one with a therapist and then in a group. A med like Paxil can support therapy of course when it’s needed. Just my 2c Philip Philip, My experience with sp has been that until you lessen the anxiety with meds, it’s unlikely that you’ll be able to even see a therapist, let alone take CBT.  The anxiety is just too great with sp people when dealing with "authority" figures, among countless others.

You are obviously more familiar with SP than I am. Still, I can imagine it being a gradual thing where some people can actually make do woth therapy only while others need meds too. I don’t have SP but I *am* lucky enough to have PD w/agoraphobia and I needed my meds to work before I could see a CB-therapist. That brings up a question I’ve always wondered about.  Is social phobia with situational panic attacks equal to, less than or more difficult to cope with than panic disorder?  I’m not intentionally being facetious.  It’s just that I’ve often thought that "if it were possible", I’d trade my sp for pd.  Please don’t misunderstand;  I realize that pd disrupts thousands of lives too.

As you say yourself it’s not a contest. We all are dealt a hand we have to play and IMO the way we (learn to) handle that determines how difficult it is to cope with it. I don’t believe there is an objective standard. So: YMMV. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :Are the benefits of Paxil worth going through some of the bad side effects? I think it depends on the person, how effective paxil is for them and what the side-effects are and what they are willing to tolerate in exchange for good control over their anxiety disorder. You just won`t know unless you always get off paxil if you don`t like it. Just make sure to start at a low dose like 5mgs, or 2.5 if you are super sensitive to the side-effects of meds and wean slowly until you reach your prescribed dose. Using a benzo such as Xanax can make the weaning process more tolerable. Give paxil 6 to 8 weeks to kick in, side-effects will hopefully have diminished or gone away completely by this time as well. I`ve been on paxil for more than 4 years and to me it was worth the few side-effects I had and still have…..like fatigue, dry mouth and vivid dreaming, small price to pay for having my life back. :Is Paxil really good for treating just Social Phobia? I take paxil for panic disorder but I`ve read and heard that paxil is a effective med for social anxiety.  Will it be a good med for you? No one Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~

Just to reiterate what Jackie said about Paxil being effective for social phobia too:  I’ve had sp for all of my adult life and discovered Paxil perhaps 6 years ago.  I took this med off and on, mostly on,  for nearly 5 years.  It was excellent at eliminating anticipatory and chronic anxiety, but was not able to prevent situational panic attacks (at least in my case). If you also have situational panic attacks, you may need a benzodiazepine to complement the Paxil.  OTOH, in the social phobia newsgroup, a few posters have stated that Paxil also reduced or stopped their panic attacks too.  Just goes to show that people can react differently to the same med. I gave up Paxil because of an inordinate number of side effects, which probably isn’t the norm, and switched over to all benzos.  That said, if I could no longer take benzos, I definitely would reconsider Paxil in spite of the side effects I experienced.  BTW, if you decide to try Paxil and weight gain begins to become an issue, attack it immediately before it gets out of hand.  Cut your caloric intake about 10 to 15% and begin a mild exercise program.  I have absolutely zero data stating what percent of people gain weight with Paxil, but a number of folks apparently do based on posts I’ve read and my own experience. Even so, the manufacturer of Paxil states in television ads that loss of appetite may be a side effect, but they make no reference to weight gain.  The good news, though, is if you gain weight with Paxil, then stop taking the drug, over time the lbs. will drop off.  Mine did. Doug

Response:

:Are the benefits of Paxil worth going through some of the bad side effects? I think it depends on the person, how effective paxil is for them and what the side-effects are and what they are willing to tolerate in exchange for good control over their anxiety disorder. You just won`t know unless you always get off paxil if you don`t like it. Just make sure to start at a low dose like 5mgs, or 2.5 if you are super sensitive to the side-effects of meds and wean slowly until you reach your prescribed dose. Using a benzo such as Xanax can make the weaning process more tolerable. Give paxil 6 to 8 weeks to kick in, side-effects will hopefully have diminished or gone away completely by this time as well. I`ve been on paxil for more than 4 years and to me it was worth the few side-effects I had and still have…..like fatigue, dry mouth and vivid dreaming, small price to pay for having my life back. :Is Paxil really good for treating just Social Phobia? I take paxil for panic disorder but I`ve read and heard that paxil is a effective med for social anxiety.  Will it be a good med for you? No one Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~

Response:

:Is Paxil really good for treating just Social Phobia? I take paxil for panic disorder but I`ve read and heard that paxil is a effective med for social anxiety.  Will it be a good med for you? No one Jackie

Paxil is s good a med for Social Anxiety Disorder as its peer meds AFAIK. But I believe the first choice treatment is *Cognitive Behavioral Therapy* (CBT), first one-to-one with a therapist and then in a group. A med like Paxil can support therapy of course when it’s needed. Just my 2c Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Are the benefits of Paxil worth going through some of the bad side effects? Is Paxil really good for treating just Social Phobia?

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is it.  This is beautiful.  This is the kind of stuff I want to converse about.  Panther, thank you for posting this. <snip i have social phobia too.  always have, to some extent.  over the years i’ve constructed a good social mask which does take less energy to wear as the years go by.  but it always takes a good deal of my energy. <snip I certainly can relate to anxiety over social occasions, I use to puke before a gathering where there were people that I did not know. (and sometimes with ppl I DID know)  Did it for years actually unbeknownst to anyone who did not live in the house with me. and i would somehow invariably put my WORST foot forward. <snip and then started having the "gatherings" at my house that I pretty much lost that ole anxiety. (Granted ppl who come to the gatherings may or may not have noticed that I would disappear occasionally (slip out the door and would take a quiet walk by myself or something). <snip How about we make a deal?  We’ll start talking about the fear of social situations (I’m sure we  aren’t the only two survivors who have or have had that).  

<snip Just an AOL – thanks for this conversation too. Skipping a lot of stuffhere atm, but wanted to AOL this.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First I’d like to thank azure for moving this topic and joining in. Sure those ponies in the back pasture won’t cure those anxiety attacks? ponies?  The ones from pony island?  :-) One and the same.  Did you have one your particularly liked???  A particular color??? ponys me like sheflend ponys  me like bage color  bethie     I certainly can relate to anxiety over social occasions, I use to puke before a gathering where there were people that I did not know. (and sometimes with ppl I DID know)  Did it for years actually unbeknownst to anyone who did not live in the house with me. Actually, it wasn’t until I started using the internet, met one or two people first, and then started having the "gatherings" at my house that I pretty much lost that ole anxiety. (Granted ppl who come to the gatherings may or may not have noticed that I would disappear occasionally (slip out the door and would take a quiet walk by myself or something). My mother told me once that even when I was a baby I use to cry as soon as I left our house and really got hysterical if we went into a store or office.  So this started way back as a baby it seems. I get this if I’m on a road trip when it hits just about 2 – 2 1/2 hours. But I know why School was hell for me.  First just leaving my house but then having to be in a room full of people and terror is the teacher picked on me to say anything. Oh GOD yes  One nun was particularly bad, I had her for 5th and 7th grades.  I was so petrified that I began to stutter.  When this happened (it was the only time I stuttered btw), she would say "Oh, SIT down" and she’d call on someone else. I was put in special reading classes for years simply because I just "could not" read out loud in a classroom.  It finally took a wonderful teacher to keep me after class one day and asked me to read to him alone before it was proved that my reading skills were beyond my grade level.  All because I was so scared of people. I could not read out loud in school either (I’ve only just overcome this over the last 10 years).  Mercifully in highschool there was a teacher who said that if anyone was uncomfortable reading out loud to just let him know privately.  I did.  It taught me to also mention it to other teachers and they respected that I believe this is also one of the reason’s I ended up doing drugs. Codeine and ritlin (speed too) has an effect on me to open up and talk to people, to WANT to talk to them, to feel good being around them. Now that I’m clean it seems my phobia is back in full force. I guess I was fortunate that I never got into drugs (my addiction is cigerettes though).  I could not (and most likely still do not) trust most people enough to be in front of them without my full facilities. This is also part of the reason my marriage broke up.  My not being able to go to social gatherings with my husband, or work related gatherings. I seemed to be able to do that when necessary.  I would often dream the night before that I was infront of a crowd talking and suddenly, one by one, my teeth would fall out.  Also during particularly stressful times when I was in a position that I had to get up in front of ppl, I would invaribly get a "cold" and lose my voice.  Sometimes as long as 3 to 4 months. I spent the first 6 months of my marriage not being able to walk into a grocery store to buy food.  I can do that now, I can go to gatherings IF I know most of the people, but it’s still a strugle to go.  It’s weird.  I can walk into a room of NA and even stand up and talk about my life/history but put me in a social situation and I’m a mess. Guess I was fortunate in that regard I can’t do the "meeting at my house" stuff either.  Hell my brother wanted to visit awhile back and I fell to pieces just thinking about him coming to visit and I’ve known him and loved him since ‘93. I feel safer if the meeting occurs in my house. How about we make a deal?  We’ll start talking about the fear of social situations (I’m sure we  aren’t the only two survivors who have or have had that).  We’ll see if by the time we have the guesthouse built we can say, don’t ever say never. (that way you would have your own private "space") And I’m serious, don’t be surprised if there IS a pony looking at you through the back door when you get here.  It’s been said I’m not to "go crazy with the horses" but hell…..three doesn’t make a person crazy does it? Panther, I went to bed last night having panic attacks.  Heart pounding, head spinning, feeling sick to my stomach, just over this post alone.  We can talk about this.  But I can’t even THINK about a visit.  I was amazed that I was even able to go to geode’s memorial, and thank goodness for Laurie because I clung onto her most of the time, and also some of the alters took over for awhile. Yes I recall that you went to geode’s and that was a very good thing.  I found that under circumstances I could do social things and other times there was NOWAY.  In looking back, I think that when I thought a social situation would help others, I could do it.  If for some reason it was not of that type, I’d freak out.  i.e. school gathering were for the children; politics was fighting for some good that benefited others etc. Well the alters aren’t around as much anymore,  I’m not doing drugs anymore, and I’m falling apart in this area now….. Thanks to you and spike though for the kindness. You’re quite welcome Kaitlyn Panther Kaitlyn Best, Panther panther, or Noel; i wish to invite our kait to canada please assist me. spike can i call you dear? ppl say it’s too hard or difficult to visit, i say bull! does panther have your #?? With love and buds, andy dearest andy,     those are not the only reasons.  I don’t do well in visiting people.

Kait, i know you are tuff. You can overcome this. Several ways. Paxil helps many ppl. A leap of faith, when you see that nothing bad happens and you have fun, you will overcome this. Ever been on a snowmobile? Had a snowball-fight? Walk on water? You could do this with pals and on private land no assholes (‘cept for me) for miles and miles. Wanna ice skate? I’ll teach you! I think if you tried all sorts of new exciting things it would help you overcome your difficulties. I’ve been planning to leave the city for years now i am, so if you like shopping the theater and other cultural activities it’s a hour drive to toronto, but the new setting is a northern lake in a mixed forest of pine and maple, very peaceful. I’ll just keep a candle in the window for you.  I have this little disorder called social phobia, and it’s hell on me.  I’ve been here in my apartment for over two weeks now without any outside contact except calls from my daughter and writting here.  I’m not even answering my phone these days.

LOL i have not answered the fone in a week or so. Sometimes if ppl come over especially early, even close friends i’ll say get lost. Or even worse say the cops come over i’ll just turn up the music, usually nirvana you know la la la i can’t hear you. So i’m just as bad as you. Sometimes it get bad, and now is one of those times, but even when it’s doing ok, I still have major panic attacks just thinking about going anywhere to meet anyone.

Ok, i understand. Only try this for a week or so when you feel this way….. Visualize yourself, a sunny day (we have warm sunny days in the winter here) sitting on the back of a skidoo laughing your ass off holding on to spike for dear life, in 5 minutes you will want you drive it yourself and you can it’s easy! Making snow angels, walking on water to go ice fishing, having a huge lake as your private ice skating rink to learn on. The one thing i know to help overcome fear is fun, i’ll promise you have fun. You can have a freaking second childhood up there!  So as much as I might want to visit or even have you visit me, it just not gonna happen.  I’ve talked about this subject on the newsgroup a few times.  It always turns out OK when I do go, but it’s the days/weeks/months leading up to going that I find terrible to survive.  Now with my heart problems it seems the problem is worse, because of the stress.

I sincerely do not wish to cause you any stress, but i really feel that there are solutions, we just have to try a bit harder, but it’s something we can perhaps talk about later. Hugs! spike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Your a kind man andy and thank you so much for the offer, but like I said it’s not going to happen. Hugs to you dear friend

… read more »

Response:

Can I join in here without making it a crowd?  

This is it.  This is beautiful.  This is the kind of stuff I want to converse about.  Panther, thank you for posting this. I remember reading about Liz getting ready to see Ghostwolf and her struggles with it and being awestruck.  I was still PO’d at her for other reasons but kept thinking, "Now, THAT is courage!  THAT is guts!"  because she faced the fear and DID IT. i have social phobia too.  always have, to some extent.  over the years i’ve constructed a good social mask which does take less energy to wear as the years go by.  but it always takes a good deal of my energy.

I think a whole lot of us have spent inordiate amounts of energy  taking those huge steps….. into a room full of people….. that office to talk with someone we don’t know…… being collared on the street by someone looking for directions. Shit.  i spent 5 years at a railroad doing desktop publishing but they stuck me with answering the goddamn phone with no training… it ate a hole in my stomach.  God, i hate the telephone.  Customer service. Gives me the willies.  my job now… they have vowed they will NOT NEVER EVER expect me to answer anyone’s phone except my own.  a ringing phone is like an electrical charge, a stun gun, a cattle prod that goes right up my backbone like a searing pain up in my head.  I HATE THE TELEPHONE… hate hate hate it

There are days when the phone rings and I dread picking it up…… I very simply know that what ever is on the other end is not good.  That some how they will see the flaws so readily apparent to me.  I guess I can congratulate myself…. I always answer the damn thing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sure those ponies in the back pasture won’t cure those anxiety attacks? oh, man… Animals and children.  Instant relaxation.  They’re not as judgemental.  not as pervertedly complex. I certainly can relate to anxiety over social occasions, I use to puke before a gathering where there were people that I did not know. (and sometimes with ppl I DID know)  Did it for years actually unbeknownst to anyone who did not live in the house with me. and i would somehow invariably put my WORST foot forward. Actually, it wasn’t until I started using the internet, met one or two people first, exactamundo.  that’s what did it for me.  my social circle expanded astronomically when i started using computer BBS’s, and met people on that level.  i discovered a whole new world, where it was easy to communicate and people responded to what was inside of me rather than a six-second summation of what was on the outside. and then started having the "gatherings" at my house that I pretty much lost that ole anxiety. (Granted ppl who come to the gatherings may or may not have noticed that I would disappear occasionally (slip out the door and would take a quiet walk by myself or something). and there is not one goddamn thing wrong with that.  you have the absolute right to do that.  i remember being blasted for that, screamed and ranted at if i as much as left the room, however overwhelmed with people i was.  and yet at other times i would be screamed at to "get out!" and mocked for my ridiculous social gaffes. i will never forget having a sweet friend over for a weekend… i was so hesitant to broach it to her… if there came a time when i was over-peopled and needed time for myself, would she mind if i drove off awhile to visit a chapel or something?  and it was so astounding that she had no problem with that… did not rear back in offense and say something snarky, but on the contrary…

Now, this is something I’ve never let myself do.  Take a break, to move away from the stressor, even for a little bit. How about we make a deal?  We’ll start talking about the fear of social situations (I’m sure we  aren’t the only two survivors who have or have had that). NO SHIT, SHERLOCK!!!!!!

We’ll see if by the time we have the guesthouse built we can say, don’t ever say never. (that way you would have your own private "space") And I’m serious, don’t be surprised if there IS a pony looking at you through the back door when you get here. It’s been said I’m not to "go crazy with the horses" but hell….. three doesn’t make a person crazy does it? yes it does.  if you limit it to just three. and you have to make sure you have plenty of dogs and kitties to balance the horses. azure

jeeco

Response:

This is it.  This is beautiful.  This is the kind of stuff I want to converse about.  Panther, thank you for posting this. I remember reading about Liz getting ready to see Ghostwolf and her struggles with it and being awestruck.  I was still PO’d at her for other reasons but kept thinking, "Now, THAT is courage!  THAT is guts!"  because she faced the fear and DID IT. i have social phobia too.  always have, to some extent.  over the years i’ve constructed a good social mask which does take less energy to wear as the years go by.  but it always takes a good deal of my energy. Shit.  i spent 5 years at a railroad doing desktop publishing but they stuck me with answering the goddamn phone with no training… it ate a hole in my stomach.  God, i hate the telephone.  Customer service. Gives me the willies.  my job now… they have vowed they will NOT NEVER EVER expect me to answer anyone’s phone except my own.  a ringing phone is like an electrical charge, a stun gun, a cattle prod that goes right up my backbone like a searing pain up in my head.  I HATE THE TELEPHONE… hate hate hate it Sure those ponies in the back pasture won’t cure those anxiety attacks?

oh, man… Animals and children.  Instant relaxation.  They’re not as judgemental.  not as pervertedly complex. I certainly can relate to anxiety over social occasions, I use to puke before a gathering where there were people that I did not know. (and sometimes with ppl I DID know)  Did it for years actually unbeknownst to anyone who did not live in the house with me.

and i would somehow invariably put my WORST foot forward. Actually, it wasn’t until I started using the internet, met one or two people first,

exactamundo.  that’s what did it for me.  my social circle expanded astronomically when i started using computer BBS’s, and met people on that level.  i discovered a whole new world, where it was easy to communicate and people responded to what was inside of me rather than a six-second summation of what was on the outside. and then started having the "gatherings" at my house that I pretty much lost that ole anxiety. (Granted ppl who come to the gatherings may or may not have noticed that I would disappear occasionally (slip out the door and would take a quiet walk by myself or something).

and there is not one goddamn thing wrong with that.  you have the absolute right to do that.  i remember being blasted for that, screamed and ranted at if i as much as left the room, however overwhelmed with people i was.  and yet at other times i would be screamed at to "get out!" and mocked for my ridiculous social gaffes. i will never forget having a sweet friend over for a weekend… i was so hesitant to broach it to her… if there came a time when i was over-peopled and needed time for myself, would she mind if i drove off awhile to visit a chapel or something?  and it was so astounding that she had no problem with that… did not rear back in offense and say something snarky, but on the contrary… How about we make a deal?  We’ll start talking about the fear of social situations (I’m sure we  aren’t the only two survivors who have or have had that).  

NO SHIT, SHERLOCK!!!!!! We’ll see if by the time we have the guesthouse built we can say, don’t ever say never. (that way you would have your own private "space") And I’m serious, don’t be surprised if there IS a pony looking at you through the back door when you get here.   It’s been said I’m not to "go crazy with the horses" but hell….. three doesn’t make a person crazy does it?

yes it does.  if you limit it to just three. and you have to make sure you have plenty of dogs and kitties to balance the horses. azure

Response:

Question:

Hi, I think Im looking for what I see here. Honest opinions and feed back. Please no holds bar. Im 36 been married 16 years. I bought in to the until death do us part from the beginning.I have allot of beliefs and morals that guide me. So when I say the day after our honeymoon my husband stayed out with the guys drinking and is still doing it 16 years later Ive pretty much tried everything to keep the marriage. I have a son (Hes everything and then some).Hes 5. We both love him and provide pretty equal as far as nuturing disapline food clothing.Not either one of us is the better parent. Though my husband might not see it that way.If he does he didnt voice it to me. We both have are false.My husband a Alcholic and Gambler. In the last year this has gotten out of control.Where we are financialy strapped. I deal with Panic attacks and have been housebound for a year before My son was born. I have gotten treatment and can say Im on the other side and feling pretty good. Everytime My husband gets drunk (every two days) he throws seperation and divorce in my face. He made appointments for treatment but has not kept them. Honestly the love has become non existent for me towards him. He tells me he loves me and will tell the day he dies. I want out.I am sinking fast in despair.There is not a day that does not go by where I am not insulted. He doesnt make it to work and I pick up the slack. The straw that broke this back was when he took our son by the hand and said Listen son Im going to tell you something and I want you to always remember it Your Mommy is stupid and dont never forget it. Theres no violence and for the most part the argueing has stopped. I guess Im looking for validation that I dont have to live like this. That I can safely take my son and raise him with out the Alcholol influencing him. I know it will be hard on all of us. Im scared to death about it. I dont even know where to begin the change. I have tons of questions but Ill end this here.Its already a book.Hope your still reading and I hope to hear lots. C Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

C, you cannot change him unless he wants to change and it sounds to me like you’ve tried so hard.  You are right, no one deserves to live with an alcoholic.  If he refuses help then you do what you must do for you and your son.  And I wish you good luck!  (((hugs))) Daisy Get acquainted with the posters of ASD! http://www.geocities.com/asddaisy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I think Im looking for what I see here. Honest opinions and feed back. Please no holds bar. Im 36 been married 16 years. I bought in to the until death do us part from the beginning.I have allot of beliefs and morals that guide me. So when I say the day after our honeymoon my husband stayed out with the guys drinking and is still doing it 16 years later Ive pretty much tried everything to keep the marriage. I have a son (Hes everything and then some).Hes 5. We both love him and provide pretty equal as far as nuturing disapline food clothing.Not either one of us is the better parent. Though my husband might not see it that way.If he does he didnt voice it to me. We both have are false.My husband a Alcholic and Gambler. In the last year this has gotten out of control.Where we are financialy strapped. I deal with Panic attacks and have been housebound for a year before My son was born. I have gotten treatment and can say Im on the other side and feling pretty good. Everytime My husband gets drunk (every two days) he throws seperation and divorce in my face. He made appointments for treatment but has not kept them. Honestly the love has become non existent for me towards him. He tells me he loves me and will tell the day he dies. I want out.I am sinking fast in despair.There is not a day that does not go by where I am not insulted. He doesnt make it to work and I pick up the slack. The straw that broke this back was when he took our son by the hand and said Listen son Im going to tell you something and I want you to always remember it Your Mommy is stupid and dont never forget it. Theres no violence and for the most part the argueing has stopped. I guess Im looking for validation that I dont have to live like this. That I can safely take my son and raise him with out the Alcholol influencing him. I know it will be hard on all of us. Im scared to death about it. I dont even know where to begin the change. I have tons of questions but Ill end this here.Its already a book.Hope your still reading and I hope to hear lots. C Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

The straw that broke this back was when he took our son by the hand and said Listen son Im going to tell you something and I want you to always remember it Your Mommy is stupid and dont never forget it. Theres no violence and for the most part the argueing has stopped.

He’s lost respect for you, that can be regained. I guess Im looking for validation that I dont have to live like this.

You don’t have to live like this. That I can safely take my son and raise him with out the Alcholol influencing him.

Slow down a second… yes, divorce is a option, but it’s like amputation. I think the first thing you ought to do is get help with YOU. There are support groups to help you get the emotional tools you need to deal with your dispair and your husbands drinking. I know it will be hard on all of us. Im scared to death about it. I dont even know where to begin the change.

Start by reaching for a phone book. The help you need may be as close as that. I have tons of questions but Ill end this here.Its already a book.Hope your still reading and I hope to hear lots.

Speaking of books, try your public libary as well.

Response:

There can be merit in a relationship of’friendship’ with a previous partner, that allow you both to have other ‘life-mates’  It may be that too much damage has been done to live together. That doesn’t mean you cant both be good parents, and be civilised in a friendly relationship. Keep your eyes open for other people in your situation who may enjoy your company, and really make you feel worthwhile. Also I have just started a web-ste for people needing an outlet for their problems and frustrations, a distraction from the day to day turmoil. Take a look www.laptoplovers.com Good luck Lydia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I think Im looking for what I see here. Honest opinions and feed back. Please no holds bar. Im 36 been married 16 years. I bought in to the until death do us part from the beginning.I have allot of beliefs and morals that guide me. So when I say the day after our honeymoon my husband stayed out with the guys drinking and is still doing it 16 years later Ive pretty much tried everything to keep the marriage. I have a son (Hes everything and then some).Hes 5. We both love him and provide pretty equal as far as nuturing disapline food clothing.Not either one of us is the better parent. Though my husband might not see it that way.If he does he didnt voice it to me. We both have are false.My husband a Alcholic and Gambler. In the last year this has gotten out of control.Where we are financialy strapped. I deal with Panic attacks and have been housebound for a year before My son was born. I have gotten treatment and can say Im on the other side and feling pretty good. Everytime My husband gets drunk (every two days) he throws seperation and divorce in my face. He made appointments for treatment but has not kept them. Honestly the love has become non existent for me towards him. He tells me he loves me and will tell the day he dies. I want out.I am sinking fast in despair.There is not a day that does not go by where I am not insulted. He doesnt make it to work and I pick up the slack. The straw that broke this back was when he took our son by the hand and said Listen son Im going to tell you something and I want you to always remember it Your Mommy is stupid and dont never forget it. Theres no violence and for the most part the argueing has stopped. I guess Im looking for validation that I dont have to live like this. That I can safely take my son and raise him with out the Alcholol influencing him. I know it will be hard on all of us. Im scared to death about it. I dont even know where to begin the change. I have tons of questions but Ill end this here.Its already a book.Hope your still reading and I hope to hear lots. C Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joan Livingston wrote in message … >gs <he…@rest.net> wrote in message >news:882575F6F143A309.46831FFADFB3A98F.6F140C62DC693BF3@lp.airnews.net… >> Joan Livingston wrote in message … >> >Why is there this current campaign among MDs in the US to get women off >of >> >unnecessary thryoid prescritions? Why are US MDs running scared about the >> >connection between excessive thyroid medications and osteoporosis? >> >J >> Please back your comments up with the sites, so that we may read for >> ourselves.  Would that be possible?  Have you had a bad experience with >> doctors? with medicine? What exactly causes you to be so critical?  What >US >> doctors are running scared? >  Nope, none of the above. I know plenty of good doctors. I am just passing >on the Good Word from research and CEU courses I take. I the Citation Queen, >BTW. No fact is good without a  cite. >  You may also want to read the FDA warning sheet for thyroid medication to >get a better idea of the scope of the problems with this drug and its >"over-use". >  One thing I hope you will come to appreciate about the information that >comes to and from this group, is that it carries a high degree of >reliability and goes through the crucible of active and often intelligent >discussion. There are some pretty bright  posters here who you can count on >to give every claim a good run through. Do you want this site to provide >anything less? Do you want ignorance to be "supported" Who  benefits from >supporting ignorance? Your daughters? >J >J >Meaning, that I’m not intelligent? I have asked several times to be shown

exactly where to go to find the information you keep posting. Why would I take your word or anyone else’s word as fact, shouldn’t I read for myself? I seem to keep asking the same things, and getting the same run around.  Why can’t you see that is what I’m trying to do?  I don’t know any of you here, and any statement can be given as fact by anyone. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Joan Livingston wrote in message … >Do you want "sites" or cites? >J >I’m sure you know what I mean. Sorry, I’m not a computer expert. This is

getting to be very petty.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joan Livingston wrote in message … >gs <he…@rest.net> wrote in message >news:882575F6F143A309.46831FFADFB3A98F.6F140C62DC693BF3@lp.airnews.net… >> Joan Livingston wrote in message … >> >Why is there this current campaign among MDs in the US to get women off >of >> >unnecessary thryoid prescritions? Why are US MDs running scared about the >> >connection between excessive thyroid medications and osteoporosis? >> >J >> Please back your comments up with the sites, so that we may read for >> ourselves.  Would that be possible?  Have you had a bad experience with >> doctors? with medicine? What exactly causes you to be so critical?  What >US >> doctors are running scared? >  Nope, none of the above. I know plenty of good doctors. I am just passing >on the Good Word from research and CEU courses I take. I the Citation Queen, >BTW. No fact is good without a  cite. >  You may also want to read the FDA warning sheet for thyroid medication to >get a better idea of the scope of the problems with this drug and its >"over-use". >  One thing I hope you will come to appreciate about the information that >comes to and from this group, is that it carries a high degree of >reliability and goes through the crucible of active and often intelligent >discussion. There are some pretty bright  posters here who you can count on >to give every claim a good run through. Do you want this site to provide >anything less? Do you want ignorance to be "supported" Who  benefits from >supporting ignorance? Your daughters? >J

Most drugs come with warning sheets.  Have you jumped on the thyroid because it is another hormone?  Are you saying that anyone can just walk into their doctor’s office and get  a thyroid drug?

Response:

Joan Livingston wrote in message … >Why is there this current campaign among MDs in the US to get women off of >unnecessary thryoid prescritions? Why are US MDs running scared about the >connection between excessive thyroid medications and osteoporosis? >J

Please back your comments up with the sites, so that we may read for ourselves.  Would that be possible?  Have you had a bad experience with doctors? with medicine? What exactly causes you to be so critical?  What US doctors are running scared?

Response:

Already cited. This warning is in the archives from a CEU course I took a year or so ago from a UCLA Prof in Clincal Medicine. J gs <he…@rest.net> wrote in message

news:882575F6F143A309.46831FFADFB3A98F.6F140C62DC693BF3@lp.airnews.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Joan Livingston wrote in message … > >Why is there this current campaign among MDs in the US to get women off of > >unnecessary thryoid prescritions? Why are US MDs running scared about the > >connection between excessive thyroid medications and osteoporosis? > >J > Please back your comments up with the sites, so that we may read for > ourselves.  Would that be possible?  Have you had a bad experience with > doctors? with medicine? What exactly causes you to be so critical?  What US > doctors are running scared?

Response:

Do you want "sites" or cites? J gs <he…@rest.net> wrote in message

news:882575F6F143A309.46831FFADFB3A98F.6F140C62DC693BF3@lp.airnews.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Joan Livingston wrote in message … > >Why is there this current campaign among MDs in the US to get women off of > >unnecessary thryoid prescritions? Why are US MDs running scared about the > >connection between excessive thyroid medications and osteoporosis? > >J > Please back your comments up with the sites, so that we may read for > ourselves.  Would that be possible?  Have you had a bad experience with > doctors? with medicine? What exactly causes you to be so critical?  What US > doctors are running scared?

Response:

gs <he…@rest.net> wrote in message

news:882575F6F143A309.46831FFADFB3A98F.6F140C62DC693BF3@lp.airnews.net… > Joan Livingston wrote in message … > >Why is there this current campaign among MDs in the US to get women off of > >unnecessary thryoid prescritions? Why are US MDs running scared about the > >connection between excessive thyroid medications and osteoporosis? > >J > Please back your comments up with the sites, so that we may read for > ourselves.  Would that be possible?  Have you had a bad experience with > doctors? with medicine? What exactly causes you to be so critical?  What US > doctors are running scared?

  Nope, none of the above. I know plenty of good doctors. I am just passing on the Good Word from research and CEU courses I take. I the Citation Queen, BTW. No fact is good without a  cite.   You may also want to read the FDA warning sheet for thyroid medication to get a better idea of the scope of the problems with this drug and its "over-use".   One thing I hope you will come to appreciate about the information that comes to and from this group, is that it carries a high degree of reliability and goes through the crucible of active and often intelligent discussion. There are some pretty bright  posters here who you can count on to give every claim a good run through. Do you want this site to provide anything less? Do you want ignorance to be "supported" Who  benefits from supporting ignorance? Your daughters? J J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Please put a date on your "was". When "was" this the case? J MPitc2000 <mpitc2…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message

news:20000312005545.01759.00002015@ng-bg1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> mary p>>there is such a thing here called the "thyroid belt > joan>  This is not a "disease" as much as it -was- a dietary deficiency area. > But > with the introduction of iodized salt and varied diets, this is no longer > the case. > This has nothing to do with Iodized salt and varied diets…it was strictly > calculated on the concentrated areas of high thyroid disease in populations in > this area. > Ask an endocrinologist.

Response:

>Why is Synthroid the Number two selling drug in the US? What is it about US >women’s thyroid glands in particular that goes so bad, yet US women are no >where near as healthy as women in countries that do not sell such large >quantities of thryoid medication. >What is going on with US women’s thyroid glands?

WE, IN THE UNITED STATES, are fortunate enough to have the medical knowledge to diagnose and treat thyroid disease and thyroid eye disease.  ALSO, in other countries other women or men may die earlier or go blind from thyroid disease. If you would like to hear some horror stories from the UK, Germany, etc… just go to alt. support thyroid you can find a few here (some even from the USA also!) Many women right here in our country …go to an emergency room with a heart rate of 150 and up…tremors…anxiety or panic symptoms and are given valium and told to see their drs.  They go to the dr and then are put on prozac, buspar, etc, etc. and told they have anxiety disorder or are experiencing panic attacks.  Then after about six months and loss of about 40 lbs…they then will test your thryoid.   You dont think that they over use synthroid do you?

Response:

Facts will serve this discussion better than anecdote. Dr Sam from the UK was surprised to see that Synthroid was the number two selling drug in the US.  Most countries in Western Europe score way higher on health markers than the US.   Why are so many women in the US using thyroid medications? And why are we statistically so much less healthy according to WHO stats than any other country in Western Europe? And why have we been getting worse over the last decade?    Why is the thyroid gland so mal-functional? J MPitc2000 <mpitc2…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message

news:20000312004803.01759.00002014@ng-bg1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Why is Synthroid the Number two selling drug in the US? What is it about US > >women’s thyroid glands in particular that goes so bad, yet US women are no > >where near as healthy as women in countries that do not sell such large > >quantities of thryoid medication. > >What is going on with US women’s thyroid glands? > WE, IN THE UNITED STATES, are fortunate enough to have the medical knowledge to > diagnose and treat thyroid disease and thyroid eye disease.  ALSO, > in other countries other women or men may die earlier or go blind from thyroid > disease. If you would like to hear some horror stories from the UK, Germany, > etc… > just go to alt. support thyroid you can find a few here (some even from the USA > also!) > Many women right here in our country …go to an emergency room with a heart > rate of 150 and up…tremors…anxiety or panic symptoms and are given valium > and told to see their drs.  They go to the dr and then are put on prozac, > buspar, etc, etc. and told they have anxiety disorder or are experiencing panic > attacks.  Then after about six months and loss of about 40 lbs…they then will > test your thryoid. > You dont think that they over use synthroid do you?

Response:

So would I! gs <he…@rest.net> wrote in message

news:364BBF49FC35CC4B.6F75499A47B1FB9C.C6A4B973447ADFDC@lp.airnews.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Joan Livingston wrote in message … > >Why is Synthroid the Number two selling drug in the US? What is it about US > >women’s thyroid glands in particular that goes so bad, yet US women are no > >where near as healthy as women in countries that do not sell such large > >quantities of thryoid medication. > >What is going on with US women’s thyroid glands? > Good grief!  Do you just recycle your comments?  Having a thyroid problem > doesn’t have anything to do with being overweight.  Having a thyroid problem > isn’t just a US problem.  Maybe, the fact that thyroid disease, in the past, > has been one of the diseases that was passed off as menopause. The thyroid > problem is worldwide!  Could you please pass on the information concerning > top selling drugs in other countries?  I have been trying to locate this > information….and have come up empty.  Would love to take a look at the > other countries lists!  Thanks….gs

Response:

On Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:41:12 -0000, "Sam Saidi" <nos…@saidi.org> wrote: >I hope your husband is not dead yet. He probably soon will be if you treat >his Afib with thyroxine. A-fib is a known complication of hyper-thyroidism.

Thank you, Sam!! I was about to post that treating atrial fib with thyroxin was quite similar to throwing gasoline on a fire to put the fire out. Terri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->It is also difficult to be in good shape and a tad overweight, I suppose it >depends on your definitions >Sam Saidi >MPitc2000 <mpitc2…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message >news:20000311011514.21848.00000166@ng-co1.aol.com… >> My husband who at 37 was hospitalized with atrial fib…a tad >overweight..but >> in good shape and all of a sudden started snoring.  I had them check his >> thyroid levels and his tsh(thyroid stimulating hormone level) was 5. Now >his >> internists said normal…5 is the outer limits of normal meaning poss. >> hypo…but never the less he said normal..no treatment.  When i talked to >my >> endo about it…he told me he would prescribe a very low dose of synthroid >for >> him because he believes that to be too low and causing the problems with >the >> atrial fib.

Response:

Why is Syntroid the Number 2 selling drug and what is wrong with so many US women’s thyroid glands? And why don’t you care? J gs <he…@rest.net> wrote in message

news:364BBF49FC35CC4B.6F75499A47B1FB9C.C6A4B973447ADFDC@lp.airnews.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Joan Livingston wrote in message … > >Why is Synthroid the Number two selling drug in the US? What is it about US > >women’s thyroid glands in particular that goes so bad, yet US women are no > >where near as healthy as women in countries that do not sell such large > >quantities of thryoid medication. > >What is going on with US women’s thyroid glands? > Good grief!  Do you just recycle your comments?  Having a thyroid problem > doesn’t have anything to do with being overweight.  Having a thyroid problem > isn’t just a US problem.  Maybe, the fact that thyroid disease, in the past, > has been one of the diseases that was passed off as menopause. The thyroid > problem is worldwide!  Could you please pass on the information concerning > top selling drugs in other countries?  I have been trying to locate this > information….and have come up empty.  Would love to take a look at the > other countries lists!  Thanks….gs

Response:

Such is the status of the Worlds Best Health Care System ..giving drugs that are contraindicated for the conditions they are intended to treat. Prescription drugs are the 4th leading cause of death in the US and medical mistakes are number 5. J Sam Saidi <nos…@saidi.org> wrote in message

news:8adpf1$cfb$1@plutonium.btinternet.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I hope your husband is not dead yet. He probably soon will be if you treat > his Afib with thyroxine. A-fib is a known complication of hyper-thyroidism. > It is also difficult to be in good shape and a tad overweight, I suppose it > depends on your definitions > Sam Saidi > MPitc2000 <mpitc2…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message > news:20000311011514.21848.00000166@ng-co1.aol.com… > > My husband who at 37 was hospitalized with atrial fib…a tad > overweight..but > > in good shape and all of a sudden started snoring.  I had them check his > > thyroid levels and his tsh(thyroid stimulating hormone level) was 5. Now > his > > internists said normal…5 is the outer limits of normal meaning poss. > > hypo…but never the less he said normal..no treatment.  When i talked to > my > > endo about it…he told me he would prescribe a very low dose of synthroid > for > > him because he believes that to be too low and causing the problems with > the > > atrial fib.

Response:

Joan Livingston wrote in message

<4fuy4.292$yA3.66…@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>… >Why is Syntroid the Number 2 selling drug and what is wrong with so many US >women’s thyroid glands? >And why don’t you care? >J

So, do you have the information about the drugs in other countries?  How dare you say I don’t care!  I have pointed out several sites to you…not only in the US.  I have also given you the Rxlist  saying it was #3 for several years, and then went to #1.  You keep saying the same thing over and over.  Could you please show me the sites, showing the other countries drugs?   gs

Response:

Actually…..believe it or not in men.(check the books on this one)..atrial fib can be a complication of hypothyroidism as well…Many men present initially with heart problems..and it isnt until later that they have thyroid problems diagnosed.   Heart problems are a common initial presenting sign in men..often before weight gain/loss, anxiety/depression, and other common symptoms of both hyper and hypothyroidism.   Actually…you see with a tsh of 5 it is not indidcated that he has graves disease…nor do any of his physical symptoms. As far as my definition of being a tad overweight…he is 6′4 245 and not a couch potato, eh?  He is really just a big guy..i guess! One thing i have learned …first hand and also from many other people that i have talked to with thyroid problems… there are NO SET ==SET OF SYMPTOMS for hyper and hypo…and that is what makes it so difficult to treat and diagnose! People have gained weight, felt tired, depressed, constipation,etc. being hyper…and have had scant periods, weight loss, anxiety, loose bowel, palpataions…being hypo!!! THERE ARE NO RULES..it stinks really..cause then the drs even get confused and treatment becomes a battle between dr and patient.

Response:

Actually…..it is not just womens thyroids…although supposedly we may be almost 20 times more likely to get the disease than men…but …you know there is such a thing here called the "thyroid belt".  It is all of the states along the great lakes…and have found reported cases of great number within that region.  Also…that dr from tunlane said in Louisiana…he was seeing many many many families who had extremely strong long lines to autoimmune diseases. He said that Louisiana had a very high number of graves and thyroid disease rates.  He was doing testing on children of families who had at least one parent with an autoimmune disease.  He did them on mine when he came to pittburgh…he could tell out of my four boys which ones were genetically like me and which ones were like my husband.  Funny thing..the two dark haired who look like me are genetically like my husband…the two blondes who look like my husband are genetically like me.  He was able to tell me that none of the boys had the antibody to develop graves…although my one son has a small area of vertilligo..that is another autoimmune disease.   Do you know that there was a time when they thought…and it still is up in the air…that it could be sexually transmitted…… do you really think barb and george bush got it that way…hard to picture, eh? hee hee!! my bad!!!

Response:

MPitc2000 <mpitc2…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message said that Louisiana had

a very high look do you really think barb and george bush got it that way…hard to picture, eh? > hee hee!! my bad!!!

    I can’t think of better proof for the thyroid disease personality …….and their dog allegedly had it too. Dysfunctional family systems can also be "inherited." J

Response:

Why is Synthroid the Number two selling drug in the US? What is it about US women’s thyroid glands in particular that goes so bad, yet US women are no where near as healthy as women in countries that do not sell such large quantities of thryoid medication. What is going on with US women’s thyroid glands? J MPitc2000 <mpitc2…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message

news:20000311011514.21848.00000166@ng-co1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> ok…i would like to say a little of  what i know about graves disease > and/autoimmune diseases. > A person is born with a genetic tendency to develop an autoimmune disease. A > dr from tulane who was studying graves who i met with and talked to at a > conference we had here in pittsburgh, believed that he isolated an antibody > that caused graves in a person that was already genetically suseptable to the > disease..but alas he died of leukemia before his study was complete : ( > Now…if your mother or father..etc.  had diabetes, ms, lupus, rheumatoid > arthritis, etc.  …you could develop graves (and i was told that was the least > harmful of the autoimmunes that i could get and i should be happy!) or any > other autoimmune diseases.  You do not have to have a family history of > thyroid……i had none…BUT…if you do have a strong family history of > it..it would be wise to be tested often. > When they say a life stress can bring on the disease…it can mean a natural > childbirth..changes in hormones (such as peri or meno)…a death or life > circumstance of tragedy, etc. even puberty in young girls can trigger the > disease to come out. It doesnt have to mean you have six kids…two jobs…no > money, etc…. Most of the hundreds of people that i have talked to > had no major life stressors other than childbirth, meno, or menses. >   I sort of liken it to TB and someone who tests pos. but doesnt have it and > they could even have a granuloma in their lungs but it lays dormant until maybe > someone gets sick with a serious disease and then it comes out! > I would like to add that i firmly believe in my heart that the thyroid and the > way it can malfunction…either hypo or hyper…can cause a lot more problems > than these drs realize and I truly believe that eventually they will find that > it is behind such things as sleep apnea, heart problems both in men and women, > a contributer to hardening of the artieries > (because when you are hyper…your chloresteral level drops really low!) and is > even associated directly to menopause, > depression, anxiety dissorders, learning disabilities, etc.    I believe > totally that when i had my thyroid gland irradiated…it threw me within a > month into perimeno ( and as i think i have stated before…an eighteen year > old girl..who drank radiation for her thyroid was in full blown meno within one > month of the treatment—because they shut down her thyroid—from what i know > in her case it was irreversible…even though she went on thryoid hormone to > replace her dead gland!) there has to be a connection there with the slowing of > the thyroid the pituitary and the receptor sites within the body for these > hormones! >   There is a lot of controversy as to what the normal ranges for thyroid are. > My husband who at 37 was hospitalized with atrial fib…a tad overweight..but > in good shape and all of a sudden started snoring.  I had them check his > thyroid levels and his tsh(thyroid stimulating hormone level) was 5. Now his > internists said normal…5 is the outer limits of normal meaning poss. > hypo…but never the less he said normal..no treatment.  When i talked to my > endo about it…he told me he would prescribe a very low dose of synthroid for > him because he believes that to be too low and causing the problems with the > atrial fib.  So you see…many drs look at numbers and not the patients > symptoms…and even though they may think to check the thyroid …when those > numbers are in the norm range on paper..drs say..not the thyroid..when in many > instances it very well may be! > I think they treat people for diseases such as atrial fib, high blood pressure, > etc. with medications to sustain them…but they are not getting to the > underlying causes of these diseases.   I think with more research into > autoimmune diseases that they would find more answers to a lot of other > problems and even a way to slow aging..(as i was told by a dr..it is better to > be a little hypo than hyper..it will keep you younger longer…oh gee : ) maybe > it is the fountain of youth and its right inside of us! > oh well…off the soap box for now! > mary p

Response:

mary p>>there is such a thing here called the "thyroid belt joan>  This is not a "disease" as much as it -was- a dietary deficiency area. But with the introduction of iodized salt and varied diets, this is no longer the case. This has nothing to do with Iodized salt and varied diets…it was strictly calculated on the concentrated areas of high thyroid disease in populations in this area. Ask an endocrinologist.

Response:

Why is there this current campaign among MDs in the US to get women off of unnecessary thryoid prescritions? Why are US MDs running scared about the connection between excessive thyroid medications and osteoporosis? J MPitc2000 <mpitc2…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message

news:20000312004803.01759.00002014@ng-bg1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Why is Synthroid the Number two selling drug in the US? What is it about US > >women’s thyroid glands in particular that goes so bad, yet US women are no > >where near as healthy as women in countries that do not sell such large > >quantities of thryoid medication. > >What is going on with US women’s thyroid glands? > WE, IN THE UNITED STATES, are fortunate enough to have the medical knowledge to > diagnose and treat thyroid disease and thyroid eye disease.  ALSO, > in other countries other women or men may die earlier or go blind from thyroid > disease. If you would like to hear some horror stories from the UK, Germany, > etc… > just go to alt. support thyroid you can find a few here (some even from the USA > also!) > Many women right here in our country …go to an emergency room with a heart > rate of 150 and up…tremors…anxiety or panic symptoms and are given valium > and told to see their drs.  They go to the dr and then are put on prozac, > buspar, etc, etc. and told they have anxiety disorder or are experiencing panic > attacks.  Then after about six months and loss of about 40 lbs…they then will > test your thryoid. > You dont think that they over use synthroid do you?

Response:

MPitc2000 <mpitc2…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message

news:20000311195855.02488.00001670@ng-cq1.aol.com… > Actually…..it is not just womens thyroids…although supposedly we may be > almost 20 times more likely to get the disease than men…but …you know there > is such a thing here called the "thyroid belt

  This is not a "disease" as much as it -was- a dietary deficiency area. But with the introduction of iodized salt and varied diets, this is no longer the case. J It is all of the states along – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the great lakes…and have found reported cases of great number within that > region.  Also…that dr from tunlane said in Louisiana…he was seeing many > many many families who had extremely strong long lines to autoimmune diseases. > He said that Louisiana had a very high number of graves and thyroid disease > rates.  He was doing testing on children of families who had at least one > parent with an autoimmune disease.  He did them on mine when he came to > pittburgh…he could tell out of my four boys which ones were genetically like > me and which ones were like my husband.  Funny thing..the two dark haired who > look like me are genetically like my husband…the two blondes who look like my > husband are genetically like me.  He was able to tell me that none of the boys > had the antibody to develop graves…although my one son has a small area of > vertilligo..that is another autoimmune disease. > Do you know that there was a time when they thought…and it still is up in the > air…that it could be sexually transmitted…… > do you really think barb and george bush got it that way…hard to picture, eh? > hee hee!! my bad!!!

Response:

I hope your husband is not dead yet. He probably soon will be if you treat his Afib with thyroxine. A-fib is a known complication of hyper-thyroidism. It is also difficult to be in good shape and a tad overweight, I suppose it depends on your definitions Sam Saidi MPitc2000 <mpitc2…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message

news:20000311011514.21848.00000166@ng-co1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My husband who at 37 was hospitalized with atrial fib…a tad overweight..but > in good shape and all of a sudden started snoring.  I had them check his > thyroid levels and his tsh(thyroid stimulating hormone level) was 5. Now his > internists said normal…5 is the outer limits of normal meaning poss. > hypo…but never the less he said normal..no treatment.  When i talked to my > endo about it…he told me he would prescribe a very low dose of synthroid for > him because he believes that to be too low and causing the problems with the > atrial fib.

Response:

Joan Livingston wrote in message … >Why is Synthroid the Number two selling drug in the US? What is it about US >women’s thyroid glands in particular that goes so bad, yet US women are no >where near as healthy as women in countries that do not sell such large >quantities of thryoid medication. >What is going on with US women’s thyroid glands?

Good grief!  Do you just recycle your comments?  Having a thyroid problem doesn’t have anything to do with being overweight.  Having a thyroid problem isn’t just a US problem.  Maybe, the fact that thyroid disease, in the past, has been one of the diseases that was passed off as menopause. The thyroid problem is worldwide!  Could you please pass on the information concerning top selling drugs in other countries?  I have been trying to locate this information….and have come up empty.  Would love to take a look at the other countries lists!  Thanks….gs

Response:

ok…i would like to say a little of  what i know about graves disease and/autoimmune diseases. A person is born with a genetic tendency to develop an autoimmune disease.  A dr from tulane who was studying graves who i met with and talked to at a conference we had here in pittsburgh, believed that he isolated an antibody that caused graves in a person that was already genetically suseptable to the disease..but alas he died of leukemia before his study was complete : ( Now…if your mother or father..etc.  had diabetes, ms, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, etc.  …you could develop graves (and i was told that was the least harmful of the autoimmunes that i could get and i should be happy!) or any other autoimmune diseases.  You do not have to have a family history of thyroid……i had none…BUT…if you do have a strong family history of it..it would be wise to be tested often.   When they say a life stress can bring on the disease…it can mean a natural childbirth..changes in hormones (such as peri or meno)…a death or life circumstance of tragedy, etc. even puberty in young girls can trigger the disease to come out. It doesnt have to mean you have six kids…two jobs…no money, etc…. Most of the hundreds of people that i have talked to had no major life stressors other than childbirth, meno, or menses.     I sort of liken it to TB and someone who tests pos. but doesnt have it and they could even have a granuloma in their lungs but it lays dormant until maybe someone gets sick with a serious disease and then it comes out!   I would like to add that i firmly believe in my heart that the thyroid and the way it can malfunction…either hypo or hyper…can cause a lot more problems than these drs realize and I truly believe that eventually they will find that it is behind such things as sleep apnea, heart problems both in men and women, a contributer to hardening of the artieries (because when you are hyper…your chloresteral level drops really low!) and is even associated directly to menopause, depression, anxiety dissorders, learning disabilities, etc.    I believe totally that when i had my thyroid gland irradiated…it threw me within a month into perimeno ( and as i think i have stated before…an eighteen year old girl..who drank radiation for her thyroid was in full blown meno within one month of the treatment—because they shut down her thyroid—from what i know in her case it was irreversible…even though she went on thryoid hormone to replace her dead gland!) there has to be a connection there with the slowing of the thyroid the pituitary and the receptor sites within the body for these hormones!     There is a lot of controversy as to what the normal ranges for thyroid are. My husband who at 37 was hospitalized with atrial fib…a tad overweight..but in good shape and all of a sudden started snoring.  I had them check his thyroid levels and his tsh(thyroid stimulating hormone level) was 5. Now his internists said normal…5 is the outer limits of normal meaning poss. hypo…but never the less he said normal..no treatment.  When i talked to my endo about it…he told me he would prescribe a very low dose of synthroid for him because he believes that to be too low and causing the problems with the atrial fib.  So you see…many drs look at numbers and not the patients symptoms…and even though they may think to check the thyroid …when those numbers are in the norm range on paper..drs say..not the thyroid..when in many instances it very well may be!   I think they treat people for diseases such as atrial fib, high blood pressure, etc. with medications to sustain them…but they are not getting to the underlying causes of these diseases.   I think with more research into autoimmune diseases that they would find more answers to a lot of other problems and even a way to slow aging..(as i was told by a dr..it is better to be a little hypo than hyper..it will keep you younger longer…oh gee : ) maybe it is the fountain of youth and its right inside of us! oh well…off the soap box for now! mary p

Response:

Question:

JK Umac wrote: > My son is on  Anafranil, but we are waiting for it to work!!  Luvox worked > great but was a problem for him also.  Dr. is talking about adding a mood > stabilizer.  (for anger and weeping) anyone have any info about this????

Adding a second medication such as mood stablizing drugs like Lithium can be very helpful for some people with OCD. — Jim Claiborn PhD ABDD If the rich could pay other people to die for them the poor could make a wonderful living. Yiddish proverb J-Claiborn-…@worldnet.att.net

Response:

I was on Anafranil for about six months, it did improve my ocd behaviour patterns but not by 100%. The doctors tried me on other meds to see if they could get a better improvement, such as Prozac and Lustral, and a few others I cannot remember the names of. The doctor put me back on a generic version of Anafranil which made me so sick I could not move from feeling so nauseous, so I came off the drugs and I have not used them since. C

Response:

>Dr. is talking about adding a mood >stabilizer.  (for anger and weeping) anyone have any info about this????

The psychiatrist mentioned using a mood stabilizer along with an antidepressant for my son if the Clonidine doesn’t help him with the anxiety enough. He was diagnosed with TS, high anxiety, and OCD.  Since Andrew is "bi-polar", which she said means manic-depression exists in the family, an antidepressant might trigger manic depressive symptoms, unless we used a mood stabilizer to help keep emotions level.  The Clonidine will hopefully reduce the tics and lessen anxiety and she is hoping this will be enough to keep the OCD at bay.  He just began, so we’ll see…

Response:

Good luck to you and hope you make it ok through the holidays..My son told us his Anafranil is starting to work on his OCD, so we are being hopeful  at this point. I did not realize anti-depressants could trigger bi-polar symptoms, but I guess that’s what happened with the Luvox.  There is so much to sift through, which is OCD, which is the drugs and which is just being 15.  We are holding off on the mood stabilizer for now.  That would be three drugs at a time and my son says he wants to get stabilized on the antidepressant  so he can taper off the Klonipin.  He’s very good at participating in his own treatment.  Sorry for rambling.

Response:

Becky: My husband is on Anafranil.  This drug worked the best for him.  He was having a lot of problems on the others and feeling "funny inside his body" (whatever that means).  The only side affects that he has he had a lot worse with the other drugs.  It has improved his OCD but it is not nearly close to being gone.  Better than the others. Sue

Response:

I was on Anafrinal for the same reason(ocd). I am now on Luvox, i didn’t feel it was doing a %100 what in hindsight i realize is that no meds will give you a 100& you have to do the rest. wished i stayed on it. My moods swing more now..on luvox

Response:

My son is on  Anafranil, but we are waiting for it to work!!  Luvox worked great but was a problem for him also.  Dr. is talking about adding a mood stabilizer.  (for anger and weeping) anyone have any info about this????

Response:

Anafranil is no more or less effective in treating OCD in the population at large than is Prozac, Luvox, Paxil, and Zoloft. But each patient is unique and many people respond better to one of these SSRI’s than another. There is no way to tell ahead of time how effective a certain SSRI will be – its all trial and error. I would disagree, then, that Anafranil is the "drug of choice" but it is one of five medications that are proven equally effective in the general population. Personally, I responded better to Prozac than Anafranil but some would respond better to Anafranil. Generally, it can take 10-12 weeks to really know how effective a given dose of an SSRI will be. If your son has been on 20 mg for 2-3 weeks then this is not enough time. The dose range for Prozac is 20-80 mg. in adults and I do not know if a 16 year old would be placed on normal adult doses. There seems to be improvement in the fear of leaving the house, but this may be due to the Xanax. If the OCD symptoms are not yet improved, it is still too soon. Now that you have started the Prozac I guess I’d stay on it until you’ll given it a full trial. To change now would kind of be to lose those 2-3 weeks and have to start all over with another SSRI which may or may not work better. Erich

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Becky Wiggs wrote: > My 16 yr. old son was recently diagnosed with OCD. Actually the psychologist wasn’t sure > what to diagnose him with first. I took him in because he hadn’t been able to leave the > house in over a month – fear of riding in the car, fear of public places, panic attacks, > etc… A few years ago he was diagnosed with ADD also. > Anyway, it came up about my son’s obsessions and compulsions – initially not really > severe enough to interfere with his life (although they seem to be getting worse.)  The > dr. seemed more concerned about that. He started Steve on Prozac 10 mg. After 2 weeks, > and still too much anxiety to get in the car, he added Xanax .25 mg/3x day – as well as > increasing the prozac to 20 mg./day. > Well, he has been doing better as far as leaving home now. Small but steady improvement > each day. But, the dr. wants to take him off Prozac and treat the OCD with Anafranil > (clomipramine). Actually he has only been on 20 mg for 2-3 weeks, and I don’t know if we > have given the prozac enough chance to help the ocd behaviors. Maybe it needs longer or > higher dose? And we really haven’t given CBT an honest shot yet. Plus, I’m afraid of > clomipramine, from what I have read of all the side effects. But the dr. said it is the > "drug of choice for OCD." > So I don’t know what to do. I’ve read a lot of technical info, but no personal > experiences. Has anybody got advice on these meds? What has worked for others? By the > way, I don’t really lean toward psychotherapy, as I feel (at least in our case) it is > more of an inherited biochemical imbalance in the brain. My husband is a counter, I am a > perfectionist, and my mom is a terrible packrat. I think we’re a whole family of ocd’s! > Sorry if this is too long. This is my first time on a newsgroup. If anyone can help, > please email me. Thanks! > Becky Wiggs > Goldsboro, NC > cn1…@coastalnet.com

If you look carefully at the treatment studies for OCD there is lots of evidence that CBT works well for OCD. This is not because it is or isnot genetic or any thing else. It is because it is what works. Prozac is a good choice of medications for OCD as is Anafranil. There was a little research that suggested Anafranil might be better but most of the research doesnt support much difference between drugs. Individual responses differer and some people will do well on one and not another. The drug needs to be raised to a reasonably high dosage and tried for up to 3 months before it is clear how well it will work. The side effects of Anafranil are more troubling but usually not so bad as to be overwhelming. I suggest you talk to the psychiatrist about a higher dosage of the Prozac and a longer trial as it seems to be helping. Also ask about getting some help with CBT. — Jim Claiborn PhD ABDD If the rich could pay other people to die for them the poor could make a wonderful living. Yiddish proverb J-Claiborn-…@worldnet.att.net

Response:

My 16 yr. old son was recently diagnosed with OCD. Actually the psychologist wasn’t sure what to diagnose him with first. I took him in because he hadn’t been able to leave the house in over a month – fear of riding in the car, fear of public places, panic attacks, etc… A few years ago he was diagnosed with ADD also. Anyway, it came up about my son’s obsessions and compulsions – initially not really severe enough to interfere with his life (although they seem to be getting worse.)  The dr. seemed more concerned about that. He started Steve on Prozac 10 mg. After 2 weeks, and still too much anxiety to get in the car, he added Xanax .25 mg/3x day – as well as increasing the prozac to 20 mg./day. Well, he has been doing better as far as leaving home now. Small but steady improvement each day. But, the dr. wants to take him off Prozac and treat the OCD with Anafranil (clomipramine). Actually he has only been on 20 mg for 2-3 weeks, and I don’t know if we have given the prozac enough chance to help the ocd behaviors. Maybe it needs longer or higher dose? And we really haven’t given CBT an honest shot yet. Plus, I’m afraid of clomipramine, from what I have read of all the side effects. But the dr. said it is the "drug of choice for OCD." So I don’t know what to do. I’ve read a lot of technical info, but no personal experiences. Has anybody got advice on these meds? What has worked for others? By the way, I don’t really lean toward psychotherapy, as I feel (at least in our case) it is more of an inherited biochemical imbalance in the brain. My husband is a counter, I am a perfectionist, and my mom is a terrible packrat. I think we’re a whole family of ocd’s! Sorry if this is too long. This is my first time on a newsgroup. If anyone can help, please email me. Thanks! Becky Wiggs Goldsboro, NC cn1…@coastalnet.com

Response:

Question:

I don’t know if they do Jane.  But I am on the technology board of the ADAA and will keep my eyes and ears open.

Response:

writes: You can’t get any better research than that of Bruce Lydiard and Jim Ballenger.  Keep your eye on Boston! Mark Pollack, Jerrold Rosenbaum both MD panic specialists now have David Barlow at Boston University.  I am closely monitoring the research myself and will post if I hear anything new.

This is great news. Hmmm. I wonder if they have anything online? Many thanks in advance for your efforts…much appreciated! ~Jane. —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Andre, I would also like to add my thanks to you for posting this information.  It is more of a comformation for me of information I had received about my condition 15 years ago even before I had panic disorder.  I had chronic anxiety which is not the same.  I was told that I had GABA deficiency ……GABA is a neurotransmitter that acts as an inhibitor……and I was not getting enough of this to inhibit anxiety causing chemicals.  That is why the particular drug I was given worked immediately for me at the time.  It acted in the same way the GABA would have.  It also would explain why I have very bad reactions to other families of drugs that act on other neurotransmitters that I may not have a problem with. Hi Annie: In addition to PD, I have GAD which is fairly well controlled with Klonopin, but not completely.  It’s amazing that 15 years ago someone could tell you that your chronic anxiety was a result of GABA deficiency.  Although I’m not sure whether that is entirely true (i.e., deficiency of GABA as the sole cause), I think you were given information that was ahead of its time.  Besides, the fact that the drug worked for you tends to validate that theory.  Which drug did you take to counteract the lack of GABA at the time?

Hi Andre, Sorry it took me so long to respond.  When I was initially diagnosed with "anticipatory anxiety due to GABA deficiency with genetic predisposition" I was given Lectopam..a benzodiazepam.  It seemed to work very well and did not have the drozy side affects of valium ( was on it for two days back when I was a teenager but went off it because I was walking into walls<g).  Eventually I eased off all medication until I suffer severe back trauma and lost my professional violin career for good.  The panic attacks really surfaced then and I was introduced to Ativan (sublingual) as Xanax didn’t work for me although it belongs to the same family of drugs.  Ativan is lorazepam I believe,  and is a short term drug.  I was able to use it sparingly until my PD got worse due to some violent trauma I was victim to.  At this time I was having three panic attacks a day and was of great concern to my then psychiatrist.  He had me research my family background and also advised me to get the Anxiety and Phobia Workbook by Edmound Bourne.  It turns out that this GABA deficiency was inherent on both sides of the family but was masked by alcoholism.  My mother had shock treatment but still had such anxiety that she became an alcoholic.  My dad had had a nervous breakdown.  I only found out some of the family stuff in 1991 when I was diagnosed with PD.  At that time I was put on Clonazepam (Rivotril),  at 4mg per day.  It worked and ,  along with therapy,   I gradually became more functional.  But the problem is still there and I must constantly monitor my stress level due to my low weight.  Although I still manage to laugh off my condition at times,  it really isn’t funny and has led to  other more serious physical complications.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently had the first big panic attack in quite a while and as it came out of nowhere,  or there wasn’t an obvious trigger,  except maybe watching "Jumanji" (a totally bizarre movie)…….I took my meds,  told myself that there was something going on with my brain and not to panic over the panic….and I got through it. Congrats!  With the help of medications, I believe that we have *some* control over the degree of anxiety/panic that we have.  It’s *much* more difficult to do that without drugs, IMO.  I’ve read the review by Roger Ebert, who also said basically that "Jumanji" is bizarre, not very entertaining, and bound to scare the wits out of its audience, especially young children.  So I chose not to go see it.  I had a big PA in the theater while watching "Jacob’s Ladder" in 1990.  When the combat scenes rolled across the screen, I couldn’t take it anymore.  I thought I was going crazy.  So for the first time in my life, I had to walk out of a movie.  And the strange thing is, I love horror/thriller movies, such as "The Silence of the Lambs."  (I did get a little panicky while watching it, but that was while medicated, so it was bearable).  I actually enjoyed it, just like the way I used to.

I don’t like going to theatres,  not because of any phobia,  but because, as a musician,  I can hear VERY well,  and the volume of the sound tracks is just too loud for me.  I also get headaches from the darkness and the contrasting large screen.  Even when I watch a video at home I have to have some lights on or I get a headache.  I also hate the sticky goo on the theatre floors and the price of the bloody popcorn…..but I would hardly call it a phobia <g. Best wishes,

You too, Andre

Annie ( ps  I was "told" by my therapist not to see "silents of the Lambs"  <g) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for helping me validate what I already thought was going on Annie (Feeling alot more relaxed) Hi Annie:

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for posting this Andre.  My meagre understanding of medical terminology makes it a bit hard to comprehend, but I gather that this could possibly explain the tremendous differences being reported on asap on the reactions to medications and, possibly, therapy? Mally  :) Hi Mally: I had to re-read the abstract to answer your post, to make sure that I understood it. It seems that there are several different neurotransmitter systems that are involved in panic disorder, and from what I can understand from the abstract, one person with PD could have problems with one system, another person with another, and a third person with a combination of both.  And so on. As you said, I think that explains the tremendous differences in responses to various drugs that we read about in this newsgroup.  Taking myself as an example, supposing that I had a malfunctioning benzodiazepine receptor system, it would not at all be surprising that I would respond favorably to Klonopin.  It also explains why SSRIs did not work for me.  On the other hand, for someone whose serotonin system has gone haywire, an SSRI would be an ideal choice.  A person with a defect in both systems would benefit from both a benzo and an SSRI. The above model may be far too simplistic, but at least it provides a means of understanding this disorder which is so baffling for so many sufferers.  I’m sure that in the near future, through research, there will be far better understanding of PD.  I’m guessing that it’s not a single disorder, but a family of disorders that ultimately produce similar symptoms. BTW, the newest edition of Cecil’s Textbook of Medicine (considered a "Bible" among internists) covers panic disorder, and very accurately.  It treats PD as a medical disorder with a biological basis, and doesn’t even mention other treatment modalities, e.g., cognitive-behavioral therapy, and psychotherapy. I personally believe that CBT can be very helpful, when used in conjunction with appropriate medication.  The current research, however, points to a biological basis for PD, and focuses on the medications which help alleviate the panic. Andre

Many thanks Andre.  I gather Cecil’s Textbook of Medicine is not for the layperson…..but good ol’ Cecil sounds like my kind of guy!  <g All of this is so interesting and seems to explain so many of the questions that arise around the PD causes and cures issues.  I really appreciate you posting this. Mally  :)

Response:

Hi Andre, I would also like to add my thanks to you for posting this information.  It is more of a comformation for me of information I had received about my condition 15 years ago even before I had panic disorder.  I had chronic anxiety which is not the same.  I was told that I had GABA deficiency ……GABA is a neurotransmitter that acts as an inhibitor……and I was not getting enough of this to inhibit anxiety causing chemicals.  That is why the particular drug I was given worked immediately for me at the time.  It acted in the same way the GABA would have.  It also would explain why I have very bad reactions to other families of drugs that act on other neurotransmitters that I may not have a problem with.

Hi Annie: In addition to PD, I have GAD which is fairly well controlled with Klonopin, but not completely.  It’s amazing that 15 years ago someone could tell you that your chronic anxiety was a result of GABA deficiency.  Although I’m not sure whether that is entirely true (i.e., deficiency of GABA as the sole cause), I think you were given information that was ahead of its time.  Besides, the fact that the drug worked for you tends to validate that theory.  Which drug did you take to counteract the lack of GABA at the time? I recently had the first big panic attack in quite a while and as it came out of nowhere,  or there wasn’t an obvious trigger,  except maybe watching "Jumanji" (a totally bizarre movie)…….I took my meds,  told myself that there was something going on with my brain and not to panic over the panic….and I got through it.

Congrats!  With the help of medications, I believe that we have *some* control over the degree of anxiety/panic that we have.  It’s *much* more difficult to do that without drugs, IMO.  I’ve read the review by Roger Ebert, who also said basically that "Jumanji" is bizarre, not very entertaining, and bound to scare the wits out of its audience, especially young children.  So I chose not to go see it.  I had a big PA in the theater while watching "Jacob’s Ladder" in 1990.  When the combat scenes rolled across the screen, I couldn’t take it anymore.  I thought I was going crazy.  So for the first time in my life, I had to walk out of a movie.  And the strange thing is, I love horror/thriller movies, such as "The Silence of the Lambs."  (I did get a little panicky while watching it, but that was while medicated, so it was bearable).  I actually enjoyed it, just like the way I used to. Best wishes, Andre Thanks for helping me validate what I already thought was going on Annie (Feeling alot more relaxed)

Hi Annie:

Response:

Hi Andre, I would also like to add my thanks to you for posting this information.  It is more of a comformation for me of information I had received about my condition 15 years ago even before I had panic disorder.  I had chronic anxiety which is not the same.  I was told that I had GABA deficiency ……GABA is a neurotransmitter that acts as an inhibitor……and I was not getting enough of this to inhibit anxiety causing chemicals.  That is why the particular drug I was given worked immediately for me at the time.  It acted in the same way the GABA would have.  It also would explain why I have very bad reactions to other families of drugs that act on other neurotransmitters that I may not have a problem with. I recently had the first big panic attack in quite a while and as it came out of nowhere,  or there wasn’t an obvious trigger,  except maybe watching "Jumanji" (a totally bizarre movie)…….I took my meds,  told myself that there was something going on with my brain and not to panic over the panic….and I got through it.   Thanks for helping me validate what I already thought was going on Annie (Feeling alot more relaxed) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi All: I found the following abstract during a Medline search, and found it interesting. I thought the group would also like to read it. Andre Johnson MR, Lydiard RB, Ballenger JC Panic disorder. Pathophysiology and drug treatment. Department of Psychiatry, Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston, USA. Drugs 1995 Mar;49(3):328-44 Article Number:  UI95292864 ABSTRACT: Advances over the past 2 decades in our understanding of the biology of panic disorder have paralleled a remarkable increase in the development of new pharmacological agents with antipanic effects. Although we cannot presently use biological tests to help with our choice of therapeutic agent for individual patients, we can use this biological understanding in the development of overall pharmaco-therapeutic strategies. Current evidence does not support the hypothesis that panic disorder is associated with a primary disorder in one neurotransmitter system. Rather, the data suggest that the biological aetiology of panic disorder is related to abnormalities in the function of a variety of neurotransmitters including serotonin (5-hydroxytyrptamine; 5-HT), noradrenaline (norepinephrine), gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), dopamine, and cholecystokinin. It is likely, however, that panic disorder is a biologically heterogeneous condition and that biological subtypes may exist in which the primary abnormality may involve one or a few neurotransmitter systems. Currently, the data best support the hypothesis that pharmacotherapeutic agents with primary action at sites within the GABA and serotonin systems are the most effective in the treatment of panic disorder. Nevertheless, some patients will respond well to drugs with predominant activity in other systems, or may require pharmacotherapy designed to affect the function of more than 1 neurotransmitter. As our understanding of the biological aetiology of panic disorder evolves, the pharmacotherapeutic agents and strategies used in the treatment of this disorder will continue to evolve as well.

Response:

You can’t get any better research than that of Bruce Lydiard and Jim Ballenger.  Keep your eye on Boston! Mark Pollack, Jerrold Rosenbaum both MD panic specialists now have David Barlow at Boston University.  I am closely monitoring the research myself and will post if I hear anything new.

Response:

Thanks for posting this Andre.  My meagre understanding of medical terminology makes it a bit hard to comprehend, but I gather that this could possibly explain the tremendous differences being reported on asap on the reactions to medications and, possibly, therapy? Mally  :)

Hi Mally: I had to re-read the abstract to answer your post, to make sure that I understood it. It seems that there are several different neurotransmitter systems that are involved in panic disorder, and from what I can understand from the abstract, one person with PD could have problems with one system, another person with another, and a third person with a combination of both.  And so on. As you said, I think that explains the tremendous differences in responses to various drugs that we read about in this newsgroup.  Taking myself as an example, supposing that I had a malfunctioning benzodiazepine receptor system, it would not at all be surprising that I would respond favorably to Klonopin.  It also explains why SSRIs did not work for me.  On the other hand, for someone whose serotonin system has gone haywire, an SSRI would be an ideal choice.  A person with a defect in both systems would benefit from both a benzo and an SSRI. The above model may be far too simplistic, but at least it provides a means of understanding this disorder which is so baffling for so many sufferers.  I’m sure that in the near future, through research, there will be far better understanding of PD.  I’m guessing that it’s not a single disorder, but a family of disorders that ultimately produce similar symptoms. BTW, the newest edition of Cecil’s Textbook of Medicine (considered a "Bible" among internists) covers panic disorder, and very accurately.  It treats PD as a medical disorder with a biological basis, and doesn’t even mention other treatment modalities, e.g., cognitive-behavioral therapy, and psychotherapy. I personally believe that CBT can be very helpful, when used in conjunction with appropriate medication.  The current research, however, points to a biological basis for PD, and focuses on the medications which help alleviate the panic. Andre

Response:

Hi All: I found the following abstract during a Medline search, and found it  interesting. I thought the group would also like to read it.

Thanks for posting that, Andre. I can’t pretend to have understood all of it, but picking my way through the technical terminology, it seems (as far as I can tell) to be a very neat summation of the current state of understanding of PD. It was interesting reading. __ Gary Cooper

Response:

Org.  : Mich.com, Inc. Hi All: I found the following abstract during a Medline search, and found it interesting. I thought the group would also like to read it. Andre

At last! Some recent research info… Thank you, Andre. As you’re probably aware, we’ve been stuck with an ancient NIMH citations list for quite some time. Your post much appreciated. Here’s hoping NIMH will get on the stick and start updating their statement on Panic Disorder soon. ~Jane. Johnson MR, Lydiard RB, Ballenger JC Panic disorder. Pathophysiology and drug treatment. Department of Psychiatry, Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston, USA. Drugs 1995 Mar;49(3):328-44 Article Number:  UI95292864 ABSTRACT: Advances over the past 2 decades in our understanding of the biology of panic disorder have paralleled a remarkable increase in the development of new pharmacological agents with antipanic effects. Although we cannot presently use biological tests to help with our choice of therapeutic agent for individual patients, we can use this biological understanding in the development of overall pharmaco-therapeutic strategies. Current evidence does not support the hypothesis that panic disorder is associated with a primary disorder in one neurotransmitter system. Rather, the data suggest that the biological aetiology of panic disorder is related to abnormalities in the function of a variety of neurotransmitters including serotonin (5-hydroxytyrptamine; 5-HT), noradrenaline (norepinephrine), gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), dopamine, and cholecystokinin. It is likely, however, that panic disorder is a biologically heterogeneous condition and that biological subtypes may exist in which the primary abnormality may involve one or a few neurotransmitter systems. Currently, the data best support the hypothesis that pharmacotherapeutic agents with primary action at sites within the GABA and serotonin systems are the most effective in the treatment of panic disorder. Nevertheless, some patients will respond well to drugs with predominant activity in other systems, or may require pharmacotherapy designed to affect the function of more than 1 neurotransmitter. As our understanding of the biological aetiology of panic disorder evolves, the pharmacotherapeutic agents and strategies used in the treatment of this disorder will continue to evolve as well. —

Response:

Thanks for posting this Andre.  My meagre understanding of medical terminology makes it a bit hard to comprehend, but I gather that this could possibly explain the tremendous differences being reported on asap on the reactions to medications and, possibly, therapy? Mally  :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All: I found the following abstract during a Medline search, and found it interesting. I thought the group would also like to read it. Andre Johnson MR, Lydiard RB, Ballenger JC Panic disorder. Pathophysiology and drug treatment. Department of Psychiatry, Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston, USA. Drugs 1995 Mar;49(3):328-44 Article Number:  UI95292864 ABSTRACT: Advances over the past 2 decades in our understanding of the biology of panic disorder have paralleled a remarkable increase in the development of new pharmacological agents with antipanic effects. Although we cannot presently use biological tests to help with our choice of therapeutic agent for individual patients, we can use this biological understanding in the development of overall pharmaco-therapeutic strategies. Current evidence does not support the hypothesis that panic disorder is associated with a primary disorder in one neurotransmitter system. Rather, the data suggest that the biological aetiology of panic disorder is related to abnormalities in the function of a variety of neurotransmitters including serotonin (5-hydroxytyrptamine; 5-HT), noradrenaline (norepinephrine), gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), dopamine, and cholecystokinin. It is likely, however, that panic disorder is a biologically heterogeneous condition and that biological subtypes may exist in which the primary abnormality may involve one or a few neurotransmitter systems. Currently, the data best support the hypothesis that pharmacotherapeutic agents with primary action at sites within the GABA and serotonin systems are the most effective in the treatment of panic disorder. Nevertheless, some patients will respond well to drugs with predominant activity in other systems, or may require pharmacotherapy designed to affect the function of more than 1 neurotransmitter. As our understanding of the biological aetiology of panic disorder evolves, the pharmacotherapeutic agents and strategies used in the treatment of this disorder will continue to evolve as well.

Response:

Hi All: I found the following abstract during a Medline search, and found it interesting. I thought the group would also like to read it. Andre Johnson MR, Lydiard RB, Ballenger JC Panic disorder. Pathophysiology and drug treatment. Department of Psychiatry, Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston, USA. Drugs 1995 Mar;49(3):328-44 Article Number:  UI95292864 ABSTRACT: Advances over the past 2 decades in our understanding of the biology of panic disorder have paralleled a remarkable increase in the development of new pharmacological agents with antipanic effects. Although we cannot presently use biological tests to help with our choice of therapeutic agent for individual patients, we can use this biological understanding in the development of overall pharmaco-therapeutic strategies. Current evidence does not support the hypothesis that panic disorder is associated with a primary disorder in one neurotransmitter system. Rather, the data suggest that the biological aetiology of panic disorder is related to abnormalities in the function of a variety of neurotransmitters including serotonin (5-hydroxytyrptamine; 5-HT), noradrenaline (norepinephrine), gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), dopamine, and cholecystokinin. It is likely, however, that panic disorder is a biologically heterogeneous condition and that biological subtypes may exist in which the primary abnormality may involve one or a few neurotransmitter systems. Currently, the data best support the hypothesis that pharmacotherapeutic agents with primary action at sites within the GABA and serotonin systems are the most effective in the treatment of panic disorder. Nevertheless, some patients will respond well to drugs with predominant activity in other systems, or may require pharmacotherapy designed to affect the function of more than 1 neurotransmitter. As our understanding of the biological aetiology of panic disorder evolves, the pharmacotherapeutic agents and strategies used in the treatment of this disorder will continue to evolve as well.

Response: