Anxiety and Panic Information

Sadness and anxiety

Question:

Yup, me too. I figure some people feel anger, but for me, sadness does seem to creep in sometimes. Hope you are okay, Anna….. I am more relaxed this morning Seeing things more in perspective,I think Buttttttttt,how are you ? And what a pleasure to see your name here I missed you !!

Just to add my – one cent, Sadness and Anger stem from internal frustration. Figure out the frustration, and take it step by step. Be well.

Response:

I feel sad is a consequence of an activator if the activator isn’t apparent initially one digs a bit to search it out and one usually finds it is guilt over not doing something you should have. Or ones self pity over not doing something one should

I just feel that automatic, unyielding cheerfulness – which is how we are taught, even as children, to avoid and deny our sadness – gets in the way of friendship. We hide behind our cheerfulness, because we’re afraid that if other people see our sadness they will reject us. And so, in denying our own sadness, we also deny the sadness of others. That’s a route towards depression. We need to learn how to share our sadness, whether it’s by crying and accepting the tears of other people, or laughing, when we see the essential absurdity of many aspects of human existence. Giving up pride, we can accept pain. Maybe what we need to discover is the essential aloneness of each human being, and then the further discovery that the only way to bear that aloneness is to share our life with other people. -David-

Response:

I think, though, that there are strong pressures in our society for us not to *show* sadness –

so what! There is also strong pressure to all look like movie stars and models and 99.98% of us don’t- societal pressures do exist. We have the free will and ability to transcend them to a much richer and more elegant style of living. No one wants to be around bummed out people. Including those bummed out. It is better to surround ourselves with upbeat positive peers. But nothing is perfect in our world. You have a choice in dealing with sadness (less of a choice sometimes with depression) to sublimate it and bury it as a smiling clown who cries inside-or to deal with how are you making yourself sad and undoing it. Sadness doesn’t turn into anything just as being worried about anthrax doesn’t turn into anything-these aren’t living organisms-we tuen it into whatever-and we can turn sadness into a more appropriate goal directed emotion. It isn’t easy like turing on and off a switch sadness may also be appropriate-but the difference between sadness and depression are rather large global leaps of faith. Being nervous about anthrax and having a panic attack in the shower for no reason are two different things as well. One doesn’t necessarily beget the other-unless we spin one into the other cognitively. I feel sad is a consequence of an activator if the activator isn’t apparent initially one digs a bit to search it out and one usually finds it is guilt over not doing something you should have. Or ones self pity over not doing something one should LM

Response:

.Like a little girl pounding her feet on the floor to get her way. bingo as we say!

My price ???? :-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many people experience and manifest this demandingness and it is the same as a child stamping their feet when the world doesn’t go their way. Lets face it life has some shitty things in it and no one has a greater entiltlement to having things better then others. Yep having insomnia or sleep disruption stinks, yup, having a chronic condition of anxiety stinks, yup we take meds do therapy and still no miracles and we feel we have watsed our precious life and time trying to get better and just don’t get as better as we want or as fast or as perfectly. Yeah it all sucks. But when you add subjective demands that end with the notion of , "and I can’t stand it or take it anymore", you feed the anxiety monster more food. You are standing it! You are living through it. It is like anything in life temporary. Who said you suffered enough? There is no rule of total human suffering per person. You are entitled to try and make your life better and learn how to do so. But there is no guarantee you will, or you will as wonderfuly well and perfectly as you so strongly desire. Our thoughts and the style of our thinking starts this whole thing in motion and this mode of thinking and the language we use the semantics are inate and learned equally. It is very very difficult to change them. But you can change them.

All you say is very true. This is a lesson hard to learn for me. When all is well or neutral I have no demands and come to think I have let go of the "woulds,ifs ,musts and so on. And yes i have strong desire for ‘wonderfully and perfectly’ It is indeed very difficult to change this pattern of thinking and the semantic that comes with it. But I also see the adventure in learning (I must have this yearning,I know. Me still being sane is a proof huh ?:-) Hey I am doing the best I can,and i am still sad baaaaaaaa,the world is mean mean mean" the world is just what it "should" be-it is what it is. I am doing the best I can and I haven’t seen results yet is more acurate. So you can continue to try what you have been doing or try something different. Try examining the content of your thoughts and look for implied shoulds, musts, have to, gotta, always, never, can’t, and see the origin of much of your secondary suffering. Panic and anxiety don’t go away like a disease is cured, we learn to live with it unencumbered by it.

"To ask for the removal of anxiety is like asking for the removal of love or hate or anger or excitment or any other human "feeling" Bingo as we say )) Big hug from Anna who is feeling a bit better btw Not in the least cause you have got my brain some nutricious ‘food’

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello friends Does anyone has any input on how sad feelings are related to anxiety. I don’t mean scientifically, but how do those two interact in persons on this group ? I sometimes have a feeling of sadness,wich is part of life,for everyone. And mostly I can deal with it. But sometimes it evolves in anxiety and even a PA. Does anyone have any thoughts about this ? Much love Anna Yup, me too. I figure some people feel anger, but for me, sadness does seem to creep in sometimes. Hope you are okay, Anna…..

I am more relaxed this morning Seeing things more in perspective,I think Buttttttttt,how are you ? And what a pleasure to see your name here I missed you !! Big hug Anna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Take care, Liz To everything there is a season …and to every season, a special beauty.

Response:

sadness is not depression it is not unhealthy unless it becomes pervasive

I think, though, that there are strong pressures in our society for us not to *show* sadness – we are expected to be *cheerful*, and that can drive the sadness underground, where it can turn into depression. -David-

Response:

.Like a little girl pounding her feet on the floor to get her way.

bingo as we say! Many people experience and manifest this demandingness and it is the same as a child stamping their feet when the world doesn’t go their way. Lets face it life has some shitty things in it and no one has a greater entiltlement to having things better then others. Yep having insomnia or sleep disruption stinks, yup, having a chronic condition of anxiety stinks, yup we take meds do therapy and still no miracles and we feel we have watsed our precious life and time trying to get better and just don’t get as better as we want or as fast or as perfectly. Yeah it all sucks. But when you add subjective demands that end with the notion of , "and I can’t stand it or take it anymore", you feed the anxiety monster more food. You are standing it! You are living through it. It is like anything in life temporary. Who said you suffered enough? There is no rule of total human suffering per person. You are entitled to try and make your life better and learn how to do so. But there is no guarantee you will, or you will as wonderfuly well and perfectly as you so strongly desire. Our thoughts and the style of our thinking starts this whole thing in motion and this mode of thinking and the language we use the semantics are inate and learned equally. It is very very difficult to change them. But you can change them. Hey I am doing the best I can,and i am still sad baaaaaaaa,the world is mean mean mean"

the world is just what it "should" be-it is what it is. I am doing the best I can and I haven’t seen results yet is more acurate. So you can continue to try what you have been doing or try something different. Try examining the content of your thoughts and look for implied shoulds, musts, have to, gotta, always, never, can’t, and see the origin of much of your secondary suffering. Panic and anxiety don’t go away like a disease is cured, we learn to live with it unencumbered by it. To ask for the removal of anxiety is like asking for the removal of love or hate or anger or excitment or any other human "feeling" LM

Response:

Yup, me too. I figure some people feel anger, but for me, sadness does seem to creep in sometimes. Hope you are okay, Anna….. — Take care, Liz To everything there is a season …and to every season, a special beauty.

Response:

But the experience of a sadness that can be mistaken for depression is a universal one,

if one is vigilant for signs of sadness then subtle indications for sadness becomes a reality one appears to see sadness permeate ones life experiences-it becomes a cognitive schema a packet of highly charged emotional connections to thought and perceptions that are notobjective but subjective and distorted and can be activated over and over again-the world is not universally happy or sad. Bandura coined a term called self efficacy a construct that defines an individuals subjective estimate of their ability to cope effectively with problems or situations as they arise. If one doubts their ability to cope with situations and or emotions that are subjectively perceived as negative or unpleasant then -they will be unable to cope with them. Fine tuning our understanding of what we think and believe about things can have lots of mileage in restructuring our schemas or packets of thoughts with their attending emotions- sadness is not depression it is not unhealthy unless it becomes pervasive-we experience a wide range of emotions all day long and some of it is sad or bland or happy or neutral. Being Vigilant to each nuance of emotion is like watching grass grow or like waiting for the day we feel better before venturing into taking a risk. That day is made it doesn’t happen unless you make it happen. Next time you feel sad ask yourself how do I change this feeling rather then why am I sad. Watch the images and language you are using in your head and what dynamic is occuring right now in your mind-what is happening and what isn’t. You will see what is making the sadness and possibly you can change it to a more neutral gear rather then worry about it being a sign of some catastrophy waiting around the corner of tomorrow LM

Response:

sadness is not depression it is not unhealthy unless it becomes pervasive-we experience a wide range of emotions all day long and some of it is sad or bland or happy or neutral. Being Vigilant to each nuance of emotion is like watching grass grow or like waiting for the day we feel better before venturing into taking a risk. That day is made it doesn’t happen unless you make it happen. Next time you feel sad ask yourself how do I change this feeling rather then why am I sad. Watch the images and language you are using in your head and what dynamic is occuring right now in your mind-what is happening and what isn’t. You will see what is making the sadness and possibly you can change it to a more neutral gear rather then worry about it being a sign of some catastrophy waiting around the corner of tomorrow LM

This is very helpfull,because looking at my sadness I see a very strong demand on my side,that is has ‘to go away immediatly’.Like a little girl pounding her feet on the floor to get her way. The message is "you suffered enough,you take the meds and now I am entitled to be at least neutral !" instead of taking a break and watch my sadness I go in to ‘the practical mode’. Wich adds anger to my sadness because "Hey I am doing the best I can,and i am still sad baaaaaaaa,the world is mean mean mean" But all this started a few days ago when,all of a sudden, I started not to accept the fact,that my sleeping-pattern is different since the paxil.And I switched from taking in the morning to taking in the evening. And see and behold I slept 7/8 hours. But the days where anxious and I was sad.that I could not have it all. (Why me ? why can’t things be good allways?) Yesterday-evening I felt it is just this. A bit of experimenting with the paxil untill I find a ballance. And with that change I will have days,that I am a bit out of range. Feel emotions and maybe feel sad. And even feel baaaaaaa. I am glad you mentioned catastrophy. I was not really aware,but I was adding that one too. "I have no panic,but a terrible dissease" I am only not seeing it. Old habbits huh ? But it is another day and yes it does not excist untill I shape this day Thank you ‘young’ master Margrove ! Kiss on ya nose and lots of oinkies

Response:

Miss Anna wrote…… I think I add a whole lot of messages to ’sad’ wich eventually makes me anxious.

Absolutely!!!! I do the same thing. {{{{{Anna}}}}} Jackie Acting like a witch…..Eating 14 chocolate bars…..this isn`t a holiday for

Response:

Here i found out that is rare. I can be down,but i am not depressed.

I think it’s our sadness that joins us to other people. Yet we live in a society where we are expected to be cheerful. It’s very good if you are able to give expression to your sadness. In a book I’ve been reading recently, I came across the following passage: ‘Had Clara been able to express the sadness she felt for the loss of her father, her friend and her mother’s love and attention she would have been much better able to master the death of her husband and mother and, having learned to accept and express her sadness, these deaths would have been simply losses for her to mourn, not blows which shattered her world of meaning. ‘Part of the sadness which Clara had been forbidden to express was something she had taken in from her depressed mother. When, as small children, we are close to a parent, we know, at the level of our feelings, what our parent is feeling. We do not know what to call these feelings, indeed, we are too young to apply language to them, and so we express our knowledge of these feelings in images. Because at that young age we still experience ourselves as part of our parent and our parent as part of us, we can experience this image as arising directly from our own feelings and not as a response to our parent’s feelings. As we get older and separate ourselves from our parent this image remains with us, sombre, dangerous, inexplicable, but our own. It is a source of sadness, and can be mistaken for an image of our own depression… ‘ Clara’s story is unique to Clara. But the experience of a sadness that can be mistaken for depression is a universal one, maybe, and may have roots not completely distant from the ones described in the quote above. -David- -David-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anna wrote…… Does anyone has any input on how sad feelings are related to anxiety. I don’t mean scientifically, but how do those two interact in persons on this group ? I sometimes have a feeling of sadness,wich is part of life,for everyone. And mostly I can deal with it. But sometimes it evolves in anxiety and even a PA. Does anyone have any thoughts about this ? Dear Anna, I can only speak from my experiences with sadness and how it relates to anxiety, so I don`t know if this is what you`re going through. Like you… I can feel sad for many reasons and most times they are valid reasons. However…..I have a very hard time accepting sad feelings…….no matter how valid the reason is. I find the longer I am sad and this might only be a matter of a few hours, that my anxiety starts to creep up there. I have this problem with feelings of anger too…….and I can go from angry to panic within minutes. I just find these two feelings uncomfortable and very hard to tolerate. I`m sure that being told when growing up that these were unacceptable emotions, especially if they are expressed…..plays a part in why I have a hard time with them. I really need to work on just accepting these feelings…….it`s rough enough to deal with feelings of sadness, but to add anxiety to it makes it that much harder to deal with. {{{{{Anna}}}}} Jackie ~*~It’s been a lifetime struggle for me to stop spending my lifetime struggling

Yes,actually it helped a lot I see what happens to me,when you tell what happens to you. My reactions between sad and anxiety are slower,but never the less are there. I think I add a whole lot of messages to ’sad’ wich eventually makes me anxious. Thank you very much. I learned a lot today Much love Anna

Response:

"Carol" says… Can I use the excuse that I have an anxiety disorder as to why I misunderstood the question. Dont forget I have depression as well.;-) Just had to say that word one more time.. LOL!! And how about that corn on your left foot? :) You’re not alone, Carol… — Sloopy:)

I’m obviously not alone!. You noticed that darned corn. Carol. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Anna, this is not intended as a "scientific" response – I’m no scientist - but anxiety and depression often go together. That has been my experience, at any rate.

stress/anxiety affects the production of seretonin, so this would be the reason. — James Fife, Scotland ICQ:41149795 "there is NO point to life – life IS the point" -me 2001AD

Response:

Hi Anna, For me sadness can lead to despodency where I feel anxious that my sadness won’t be lifted and I’ll be doomed to gloom. It doesn’t happen frequently for me, but it does happen. Peace, John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello friends Does anyone has any input on how sad feelings are related to anxiety. I don’t mean scientifically, but how do those two interact in persons on this group ? I sometimes have a feeling of sadness,wich is part of life,for everyone. And mostly I can deal with it. But sometimes it evolves in anxiety and even a PA. Does anyone have any thoughts about this ? Much love Anna

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anna asked: Does anyone has any input on how sad feelings are related to anxiety. I don’t mean scientifically, oh poo poo on not being scientific poo poo is another of those scientific $10 words.. oh, why do they make it so difficult? if you took a nice happy normal well adjusted person and everytime they walked out of their house some giant gnome attacked them with a baseball bat until they retreated into the home-how long would it take before this well adjusted person becomes unadjusted or maladaptive and SAD. That’s the short version of how I explain panic disorder and the "initial" OOTB panic attacks, and ask how THEY would react. Luv that example. When one lives with anxiety can one be joyous? Sure, but they can be sadenned too and why wouldn’t they be? I have said this before and I will say it again-emotions are not pathological. They are expressions of thoughts and ideas and concepts and internal or endogenous realities and external or exogenous realities. Being sad is one face of being a person with a handicap-any handicap Bravo… not *once* was the word depression used. I’d seen other replies, but they all suggested anxiety/depression, which wasn’t the question at all.

Bravo to you and Margrove No I don’t talk about depression. I talk about sadness. A great difference. Actually I am one of ‘the lucky few’ not having depression/PAD Here i found out that is rare. I can be down,but i am not depressed. Being sad is just a part of life, as anxiety is. With an anxiety disorder (or any handicap, as suggested), one might be a bit sadder at times (for some of the reasons pointed out), just as more anxious at times (part of the nature of the disorder – although people in general are obviously more anxious at times, too, just not to the degree that most here get). It’s logical.

Yes it is,and i did like the explanation. You’re not alone…

Nor are you — Sloopy:)

Love Anna

Response:

I find that I have at least two kinds of anxiety and one of them has to do with sadness. One is being anxious about what I’m going to do the next day and I am anxious in the evening, night, and morning, but it is mostly worry not sadness. The other kind happens when I don’t have anything to do, in which case I am not worried the night before, but when the actual day comes when I have nothing to do, I still get anxious but it is a general anxiety which sometimes gets real bad and it makes me cry. That kind has a lot of sadness in it, I guess maybe because in the back of my mind I’m worrying about my life and how I’m wasting it. Sasha

Response:

Anna wrote…… Does anyone has any input on how sad feelings are related to anxiety. I don’t mean scientifically, but how do those two interact in persons on this group ? I sometimes have a feeling of sadness,wich is part of life,for everyone. And mostly I can deal with it. But sometimes it evolves in anxiety and even a PA. Does anyone have any thoughts about this ?

Dear Anna, I can only speak from my experiences with sadness and how it relates to anxiety, so I don`t know if this is what you`re going through. Like you… I can feel sad for many reasons and most times they are valid reasons. However…..I have a very hard time accepting sad feelings…….no matter how valid the reason is. I find the longer I am sad and this might only be a matter of a few hours, that my anxiety starts to creep up there. I have this problem with feelings of anger too…….and I can go from angry to panic within minutes. I just find these two feelings uncomfortable and very hard to tolerate. I`m sure that being told when growing up that these were unacceptable emotions, especially if they are expressed…..plays a part in why I have a hard time with them. I really need to work on just accepting these feelings…….it`s rough enough to deal with feelings of sadness, but to add anxiety to it makes it that much harder to deal with. {{{{{Anna}}}}} Jackie ~*~It’s been a lifetime struggle for me to stop spending my lifetime struggling

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anna asked: Does anyone has any input on how sad feelings are related to anxiety. I don’t mean scientifically, oh poo poo on not being scientific poo poo is another of those scientific $10 words.. oh, why do they make it so difficult? if you took a nice happy normal well adjusted person and everytime they walked out of their house some giant gnome attacked them with a baseball bat until they retreated into the home-how long would it take before this well adjusted person becomes unadjusted or maladaptive and SAD. That’s the short version of how I explain panic disorder and the "initial" OOTB panic attacks, and ask how THEY would react. Luv that example. When one lives with anxiety can one be joyous? Sure, but they can be sadenned too and why wouldn’t they be? I have said this before and I will say it again-emotions are not pathological. They are expressions of thoughts and ideas and concepts and internal or endogenous realities and external or exogenous realities. Being sad is one face of being a person with a handicap-any handicap Bravo… not *once* was the word depression used. I’d seen other replies, but they all suggested anxiety/depression, which wasn’t the question at all. Being sad is just a part of life, as anxiety is. With an anxiety disorder (or any handicap, as suggested), one might be a bit sadder at times (for some of the reasons pointed out), just as more anxious at times (part of the nature of the disorder – although people in general are obviously more anxious at times, too, just not to the degree that most here get). It’s logical. You’re not alone… — Sloopy:)

Can I use the excuse that I have an anxiety disorder as to why I misunderstood the question. Dont forget I have depression as well.;-) Just had to say that word one more time.. Carol. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hi, Anna, Anxiety and depression run hand in hand and sometimes I think the depression is worse than at other times. So naturally you feel the sadness more when the depression is worse. smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello friends Does anyone has any input on how sad feelings are related to anxiety. I don’t mean scientifically, but how do those two interact in persons on this group ? I sometimes have a feeling of sadness,wich is part of life,for everyone. And mostly I can deal with it. But sometimes it evolves in anxiety and even a PA. Does anyone have any thoughts about this ? Much love Anna

Response:

Does anyone has any input on how sad feelings are related to anxiety. I don’t mean scientifically,

oh poo poo on not being scientific if you took a nice happy normal well adjusted person and everytime they walked out of their house some giant gnome attacked them with a baseball bat until they retreated into the home-how long would it take before this well adjusted person becomes unadjusted or maladaptive and SAD. When one lives with anxiety can one be joyous? Sure, but they can be sadenned too and why wouldn’t they be? I have said this before and I will say it again-emotions are not pathological. They are expressions of thoughts and ideas and concepts and internal or endogenous realities and external or exogenous realities. Being sad is one face of being a person with a handicap-any handicap LM

Response:

Hello friends Does anyone has any input on how sad feelings are related to anxiety. I don’t mean scientifically, but how do those two interact in persons on this group ? I sometimes have a feeling of sadness,wich is part of life,for everyone. And mostly I can deal with it. But sometimes it evolves in anxiety and even a PA. Does anyone have any thoughts about this ? Much love Anna

Response:

Does anyone has any input on how sad feelings are related to anxiety. I don’t mean scientifically, but how do those two interact in persons on this group ? I sometimes have a feeling of sadness,wich is part of life,for everyone. And mostly I can deal with it. But sometimes it evolves in anxiety and even a PA. Does anyone have any thoughts about this ?

Anna, this is not intended as a "scientific" response – I’m no scientist - but anxiety and depression often go together. That has been my experience, at any rate. -David-

Response:

Hello friend.:-) In my experience anxiety and depression go hand in hand. From my own personal experience the anxiety came first though I am never really sure if I was depressed at an early age or not. The depression hit me in a big way about 2 years ago but when I think back it could well have been there before that. If I am having a big downer the anxiety hits me big time as well. I am still learning how to deal with both of these. Love Carol.

Response:

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Sleep Apnea Symptoms?

Anxiety Attack Symptoms

Question:

Taj1294 wrote: > <<Husband’s symptoms snipped>>

Sounds like a classic case of sleep apnea. My doctor didn’t diagnose my sleep apnea either. After three years of complaining about tiredness and many blood tests, I diagnosed myself. Even then, my doctor said "No way", but he agreed to send me for a sleep test. I was then diagnosed with severe sleep apnea. He’s no longer my doctor. Insist that your husband get a sleep test. If this doctor won’t set one up, find a new doctor. Big Al

Response:

taj1…@aol.com (Taj1294) wrote: >I have posted here recently about my own difficulties with falling asleep and >staying asleep… I have been struggling with this for a few years now and take >Ambien regularly. I realize now that maybe part of my problem is that my >husband seems to snore lightly and then almost snort and snore really loudly >every 20 minutes or so; often times waking me up just as I’m finally dozing off >and "jolting" me awake so that my heart is pounding when I am awakened — I >used to think that my sudden awakenings were some type of anxiety attack of my >own; but I’m thinking now that he is just startling me with his sudden >grunting, snoring and loud breathing…

That "snort" could be a gasp for air when his airway closes, a prime symptom of obstructive sleep apnea. FWIW, my wife says that your description of your husband’s sleeping behavior matches mine except that I was doing it more frequently. > He also has complained of feeling >constantly tired and says he often feels like he’s ready to fall asleep at the >wheel at the end of the day on his way home. He says no matter how much he >sleeps he never feels ‘rested’.

More classic sleep apnea symptoms. > His dummy doctor told him to take No-Doz and left it at that…

<Snort!> >He has always insisted that he has no sleep problems because he has no trouble >falling asleep and can do so anywhere, anytime.

That’s typical. I didn’t think I had any problems sleeping, I pursued my possible sleep apnea because my wife was concerned about the link between sleep apnea and high blood pressure. Something like 80 or 90 percent of sleep apnea sufferers are "diagnosed" by their spouses. > What are the signs and symptoms of sleep >apnea??? I know there has been a lot of discussion here about this subject, but >I tend to not read it because I always thought that that was not MY problem…

Have your husband take this test, or take it for him if he’s reluctant. The questions will give you a good insight into some other sleep apnea symptoms. Chronic heartburn is another, at least in my case. http://www.nationalsleep.com/sleeptest.htm >I was more concerned about being able to relax and fall asleep without >medication. Now I think that maybe my husband’s sleep habits/problems have a >lot to do with my problem: I always sleep better when he is away or if I sleep >in a different room from him. Maybe that is because he is not distubing my >light sleep!

Both my wife and I are sleeping _vastly_ better since I went on CPAP. My sleep time is about the same but I’m getting far more good out of it. My wife no longer has to cope with my snoring and gasping for breath. It’s a winner all the way around! Let us know how your husband does on the test. Tom – Sick of Spam? Join CAUCE. http://www.cauce.org

Response:

Sounds like you just gave a pretty good text book description of OSA ( Obstructive Sleep Apnea ). Think it would be wise to push this issue with his doctor and if that doesn’t work find another doctor who is more familiar and in tune with current sleep apnea diagnosis. This may not be the problem but it is certainly worthwhile investigating further. It took me many years to be diagnosed and at considerable mental and physical costs. The treatment is simple and life saving and changing. Good Luck!

Response:

It sure sounds like your husband has sleep apnea. When I told my doctor about my symptoms, which were similar to your husband’s, he blamed it on "indigestion". I went to another doctor, and he immediately sent me to a sleep specialist. I was diagnosed with OSA, and have been on CPAP for about 14 months. I’m convinced it saved my life. Have your husband get a sleep study referral ASAP, and tell him to monitor this newsgroup. Good luck! — Paul Gilbert "Taj1294" <taj1…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20001009150708.26999.00002428@ng-cg1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi > I have posted here recently about my own difficulties with falling asleep and > staying asleep… I have been struggling with this for a few years now and take > Ambien regularly. I realize now that maybe part of my problem is that my > husband seems to snore lightly and then almost snort and snore really loudly > every 20 minutes or so; often times waking me up just as I’m finally dozing off > and "jolting" me awake so that my heart is pounding when I am awakened — I > used to think that my sudden awakenings were some type of anxiety attack of my > own; but I’m thinking now that he is just startling me with his sudden > grunting, snoring and loud breathing… He also has complained of feeling > constantly tired and says he often feels like he’s ready to fall asleep at the > wheel at the end of the day on his way home. He says no matter how much he > sleeps he never feels ‘rested’. His dummy doctor told him to take No-Doz and > left it at that… I’m wondering now if maybe he has a more serious (and > completely undiagnosed) physical sleep related problem . He has always > insisted that he has no sleep problems because he has no trouble falling asleep > and can do so anywhere, anytime. What are the signs and symptoms of sleep > apnea??? I know there has been a lot of discussion here about this subject, but > I tend to not read it because I always thought that that was not MY problem… > I was more concerned about being able to relax and fall asleep without > medication. Now I think that maybe my husband’s sleep habits/problems have a > lot to do with my problem: I always sleep better when he is away or if I sleep > in a different room from him. Maybe that is because he is not distubing my > light sleep! > Thanks for any insight or advice!

Response:

On 09 Oct 2000 19:07:08 GMT, in message <20001009150708.26999.00002…@ng-cg1.aol.com> taj1…@aol.com (Taj1294) wrote: >What are the signs and symptoms of sleep apnea??? > I realize now that maybe part of my problem is that my >husband seems to snore lightly and then almost snort and snore really loudly >every 20 minutes or so

That’s one. > He also has complained of feeling >constantly tired and says he often feels like he’s ready to fall asleep at the >wheel at the end of the day on his way home. He says no matter how much he >sleeps he never feels ‘rested’.

That’s another. >… he has no trouble falling asleep and can do so anywhere, anytime.

That’s a third. If the doctor doesn’t prescribe a sleep test when presented with all of these symptoms *and* your suspicion that it may be apnea, then you should probably seek a second opinion. That said, your husband’s (potential) apnea may not be the complete cause of your symptoms. Many partners are able to get a good night’s sleep in the same bed with an untreated apneic. Continue to pay attention to any signs that you have a sleep problem of your own. Ryk

Response:

It could be sleep apnea or just snoring, before you have your husband go to the expence of a sleep clinic, get him to try a mouthpiece and see if that helps. If you go to www.snoring-snoring.com you might find the answer. Best of Luck JB

Response:

"Taj1294" <taj1…@aol.com> wrote in message news:20001009150708.26999.00002428@ng-cg1.aol.com…

Symptoms and side effects in adults Excessive daytime sleepiness (e.g. falling asleep in front of TV, at the wheel of a car etc.) Restless sleep Morning headaches Memory lapses Irritability General lethargy Slight disorientation Personality changes Sexual dysfunction (impotence) Obesity (losing weight can become difficult) Symptoms and side effects in Children Loud snoring Witnessed apneas Restless sleep Sleeping in unusual positions Excessive sweating at night Poor weight gain Bed wetting (after 6-7 years old) Behavioural changes during the day – child may be hyperactive or aggressive instead of sleepy Effects of Alcohol on OSA A person with OSA may stop breathing several hundred times a night. This is exacerbated by consumption of alcohol . At the legal blood alcohol limit of 0.05%, the brain’s response rate to an apneic episode is reduced. Mild sleep apnea can become severe with 4-5 10 oz beers. Tranquillisers and sleeping tablets also make OSA worse. Warren

Response:

Sounds like he has sleep apnea. We don’t have problems falling asleep. He needs to have a sleep test done to confirm this so it is important that he get one done. Have him see his regular doctor and state the same so he can get referred for a sleep study. Taj1294 <taj1…@aol.com> wrote in message

Response:

Hi I have posted here recently about my own difficulties with falling asleep and staying asleep… I have been struggling with this for a few years now and take Ambien regularly. I realize now that maybe part of my problem is that my husband seems to snore lightly and then almost snort and snore really loudly every 20 minutes or so; often times waking me up just as I’m finally dozing off and "jolting" me awake so that my heart is pounding when I am awakened — I used to think that my sudden awakenings were some type of anxiety attack of my own; but I’m thinking now that he is just startling me with his sudden grunting, snoring and loud breathing… He also has complained of feeling constantly tired and says he often feels like he’s ready to fall asleep at the wheel at the end of the day on his way home. He says no matter how much he sleeps he never feels ‘rested’. His dummy doctor told him to take No-Doz and left it at that… I’m wondering now if maybe he has a more serious (and completely undiagnosed) physical sleep related problem . He has always insisted that he has no sleep problems because he has no trouble falling asleep and can do so anywhere, anytime. What are the signs and symptoms of sleep apnea??? I know there has been a lot of discussion here about this subject, but I tend to not read it because I always thought that that was not MY problem… I was more concerned about being able to relax and fall asleep without medication. Now I think that maybe my husband’s sleep habits/problems have a lot to do with my problem: I always sleep better when he is away or if I sleep in a different room from him. Maybe that is because he is not distubing my light sleep! Thanks for any insight or advice!

Response:

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How does SP disable you?

Panic Attacks Treatment

Question:

Tat’s really good Brian, Have you tried group therapy. I had my last session last night. I found it very helpful. I’m not better yet but I will get there. The stuff I have learnt is fantastic and I am now on the recovery road. In article <8a9p9i$jt…@nnrp1.deja.com>, Brian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<brimo…@my-deja.com> wrote: > In article > <06f57f7b.15616…@usw-ex0109-070.remarq.com>, > kathy <kathyNOkaS…@computastore.com.invalid> wrote: > > Hi all – I don’t regularly post here, mainly cos I > am too > > busy and I only have access at work. Just like the > rest of > > you lot, I suffer from social anxiety. I have been > going > > to group therapy since January and my last session > is next > > week. There is hope for SPics cos I consider myself > 50% > > better. I’ve noticed that I now have a more positive > > outlook on life and I have noticed how I am now > having more > > pleasant thoughts. So, please do not post any more > > negative posts about CBT, especially if you have not > tried > > it. IT WORKS! > I just started CBT in January, and the initial results > look good. A > lot of work to go, but I am hopeful that the long-term > effects will be > worth it. > > Anyway, the main thing I have wanted to do in the > past 5/6 > > years is to go out on weekend nights and have a good > dance > > at a club. I also found it hard to relate to people > on a > > 1/1 basis. This can still be difficult but at least > I > > don’t avoid those situations as I’ve got my coping > skills > > to help me overcome that problem. > > I’m just curious to see how SP mainly disables you > guys. > > Everyone is different. A girl in my group has no > problem > > going to a club. She has loads of friends whereas > another > > girl has painful panic attacks when meeting people > even tho > > I see her as a very sociable girl with loads of > friends. > I could go to a club, but I’m usually with my wife and > cling to her. > Before we were together, I was just a teenager, and I > could go to a > school dance or a "teen night" at a club, but I’d keep > to myself and > wouldn’t mingle much. Mingling is next to impossible > for me in those > situations. I only have a few friends, and making new > friends is > rather difficult. My SP is at its worst in more > formal type > situations, however. > Brian > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

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Response:

In article <06f57f7b.15616…@usw-ex0109-070.remarq.com>, kathy <kathyNOkaS…@computastore.com.invalid> wrote: > I’m just curious to see how SP mainly disables you guys. > Everyone is different. A girl in my group has no problem > going to a club. She has loads of friends whereas another > girl has painful panic attacks when meeting people even tho > I see her as a very sociable girl with loads of friends.

Kathy, Here are many ways that my social phobia affects me: Can’t sing or dance in public Can’t get promotions at work Can’t hold a conversation longer than a minute with any coworkers Can’t socialize with my spouse’s friends Can’t say anything but "this weather is great" during conversations Can’t develop any close relationships with neighbors Can’t do anything more than sit in front of the computer Can’t encourage my children to participate in social activities Can’t swim in a public pool Can’t get in touch with my feelings Can’t be assertive Can’t yell and scream at sporting events Can’t go to a concert (even though I love music) Can’t manage my son’s baseball team (I am trying to find a way to get out of it) Can’t call my oldest daughter who lives out of state Can’t go to a social event without having a drink Can’t get myself away from my desk at work Can’t join a health club Can’t run with the guys at work during lunch Can’t call my grandmother who told me that she would never see me again after I moved Can’t call a psychiatrist to make an appointment for this problem This list could go on and on. I really hate my life the way it is. I have been reading a book called "The Anxiety and Phobia Workbook" but I just cannot put the suggestions into action. I want to seek help but I find myself being tied up with everything that supports this problem like working late hours and spending all night on the computer. And, now, I have convinced myself that the only way to get cured is to make sure that the therapist prescribes an anti-depression drug. Wow, it felt good to get this off my chest. Thanks for posting this thread. The Jackyl Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

No I havent sought treatment yet but I am begining to belive that might be the only way. Earnest

Response:

Try to get it as soon as possible > No I havent sought treatment yet but I am begining to belive that >might be the only way. > Earnest

=============== Grachman, The (grac…@aol.com) "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." – Shakespeare ==================

Response:

Kathy, I could go on forever about how SP disables me, but to put it simply: Social phobia disables my dreams. Those dreams include having a social life, a relationship, and a strong career. Andrew Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

Yeah, tell me about it. Feeling like I’m betraying myself all the time by not taking social opportunities sucks. I know that there is a well-adjusted person in there, but on the surface, these avoidant behaviors stop me from saying what I think, and appearing unconfident does not exactly help in terms of the workplace either. I and my work get overlooked a lot, just because I don’t assert myself. And the people I’d like to make friends with at work have no idea that I want to make friends … I think they think I’m stuck-up. Kate In article <8a6ha4$7i…@nnrp1.deja.com>, lhamm…@my-deja.com wrote: > Kathy, > I could go on forever about how SP disables me, but to > put it simply: Social phobia disables my dreams. > Those dreams include having a social life, a relationship, > and a strong career. > Andrew > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

God, do I relate to this… >Actually, the symptoms ARE picked up by normies. Otherwise, it would be >possible to ignore bullies and not have them amplify their efforts until >you can no longer ignore them. CBT can not fix this.

Everywhere you go, you find a small minority of people (5% or so) who deal with their own internal stresses and deficits by hurting other people. Individuals like this are ALWAYS looking for victims, and are often quite shrewd at picking them out. Hunter Thompson talks about this at one point in his original bestseller, "Hells Angels". And don’t ever open "The Painted Bird" by the late Jerzy Kozinski unless you’re ready for it; human beings’ relentless cruelty to others is the major theme of the book. It’s brilliant, but really depressing… Eradan * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

>I’m just curious to see how SP mainly disables >you guys. Everyone is different. A girl in my >group has no problem going to a club. She >has loads of friends whereas another girl has >painful panic attacks when meeting people >even tho I see her as a very sociable girl with >loads of friends.

I have no problem being the center of attention, as long as the attention is on something I do *extremely well*. I am an excellent dancer, and have been told this by many people, for many years, so getting up on stage at dance clubs and "putting on a show" is no problem –because I feel very confident that people are going to be impressed. OTOH, when I jump off stage and people approach me and compliment me and try to initiate conversation –I squeak out a humble "thank you" and run in the opposite direction. My friends can’t understand how someone who can dance on a stage in front of hundreds of strangers for hours on end, is incapable of conducting a simple conversation. Like so many others, they think SP is "all in my head". Well DUH!

Response:

When I first started group therapy, we compared ourselves with each other and it was like ‘there’s nothing wrong with her/him’ blah blah blah. SP effects each of us in different ways. We had to do work on the video which I didn’t find stressful the first time cos I just had to read from a book but the second time I took a full blown panic attack cos I had to have a conversation with another person from the group on camera off the top of my head. As you can imagine I didn’t have anything prepared and I felt so stupid! So that’s where I have to work on, 1-1 conversations and relationships. Have you sought any treatment for your social phobia? In article <1017-38C760B1-17@storefull- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -247.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, le_bel_…@webtv.net wrote: > >I’m just curious to see how SP mainly disables > >you guys. Everyone is different. A girl in my > >group has no problem going to a club. She > >has loads of friends whereas another girl has > >painful panic attacks when meeting people > >even tho I see her as a very sociable girl with > >loads of friends. > I have no problem being the center of attention, > as long as the > attention is on something I do *extremely well*. I am > an excellent > dancer, and have been told this by many people, for > many years, so > getting up on stage at dance clubs and "putting on a > show" is no problem > –because I feel very confident that people are going > to be impressed. > OTOH, when I jump off stage and people approach me and > compliment me and > try to initiate conversation –I squeak out a humble > "thank you" and > run in the opposite direction. > My friends can’t understand how someone who can dance > on a stage in > front of hundreds of strangers for hours on end, is > incapable of > conducting a simple conversation. Like so many others, > they think SP is > "all in my head". > Well DUH!

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Response:

confusion_h…@my-deja.com wrote in message <8a6m4r$bg…@nnrp1.deja.com>… > lhamm…@my-deja.com wrote: >> Kathy, >> I could go on forever about how SP disables me, but to >> put it simply: Social phobia disables my dreams.

I’ve been trying to look closely at what actually happens. From what I can tell it’s simple; we forget to think. That kind of thinking we do in our head, such as counting change in your head or reading without moving your lips; well, we forget to think. Our fight or flight response has a hair trigger and we forget to think. Because we don’t know we are forgetting to think we don’t know what is happening other than we are helpless and floundering. It might be worth it for you to try and remember to think next time you feel a fight or flight response coming on. Let me know how it goes.

Response:

In article <06f57f7b.15616…@usw-ex0109-070.remarq.com>, kathy <kathyNOkaS…@computastore.com.invalid> wrote: > Hi all – I don’t regularly post here, mainly cos I am too > busy and I only have access at work. Just like the rest of > you lot, I suffer from social anxiety. I have been going > to group therapy since January and my last session is next > week. There is hope for SPics cos I consider myself 50% > better. I’ve noticed that I now have a more positive > outlook on life and I have noticed how I am now having more > pleasant thoughts. So, please do not post any more > negative posts about CBT, especially if you have not tried > it. IT WORKS!

I just started CBT in January, and the initial results look good. A lot of work to go, but I am hopeful that the long-term effects will be worth it. > Anyway, the main thing I have wanted to do in the past 5/6 > years is to go out on weekend nights and have a good dance > at a club. I also found it hard to relate to people on a > 1/1 basis. This can still be difficult but at least I > don’t avoid those situations as I’ve got my coping skills > to help me overcome that problem. > I’m just curious to see how SP mainly disables you guys. > Everyone is different. A girl in my group has no problem > going to a club. She has loads of friends whereas another > girl has painful panic attacks when meeting people even tho > I see her as a very sociable girl with loads of friends.

I could go to a club, but I’m usually with my wife and cling to her. Before we were together, I was just a teenager, and I could go to a school dance or a "teen night" at a club, but I’d keep to myself and wouldn’t mingle much. Mingling is next to impossible for me in those situations. I only have a few friends, and making new friends is rather difficult. My SP is at its worst in more formal type situations, however. Brian Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

Doug <g…@execpc.com> wrote:

: I’ll give you just one example. BV lives in Chicago and I live near : Madison, Wi. At my invitation, he drove 150 miles for an appointment : with my doc (who I think is pretty good with sp and other anxiety : problems). BV and I both visited the doc together and spent a : considerable amount of time discussing his sp and how to treat it. He : was prescribed Xanax, Paxil and a beta blocker (can’t recall the name : of the beta blocker) all of which he took as prescribed. : It took considerable courage and determination on BV’s part to : contact me and agree to the appointment. Since you have sp too, you : know how much anticipatory anxiety he went through during the days he : waited for the appointment. And that doesn’t even come close to the : anxiety he experienced and dealt with while he was actually here. : His actions strike me as a direct confrontation of his sp; they most : certainly were not indicative of avoidant behavior. This excellent example illustrates the lengths I have been willing to go to try to fix my SP. It’s not every day that one would risk life and limb to fly 160 miles to seek help. This shows that I’ll stop at nearly nothing to try to get my SP fixed. Recently, I saw in a newspaper about a Chicagoan who flies the SAME route EVERY DAY to get treatment for his cancer. When I read the article, I was shocked but I fully understood his perseverence sufficient to fly his SUV on the same route I flew to see you. And to think I was brave enough to fly the distance in a raggedy unreliable car that could break down at any time. And this historic flight pales in comparison to either the mission to Texas or if that proves impossible, self-surgery. If I have to put wings on my car and do a Charles Lindbergh to fly to Finland to get ETS’d, so be it. I’ll be the first to cross the Atlantic in a flying car. That shouter gravely underestimates the lengths I’m willing to go to get my SP fixed. — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4968238 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/

Response:

Well this is my first post so since the question was asked I will answer. I have never been diagnosed with SP but I am pretty sure myself that I suffer from it. I guess the main thing for me is my strong desire to avoid all social contact period. I work full time in the public and have for about four years and it has only gotten a little better since then. I have friends who I feel comfortable around but to be honest they aren’t the most social people either. I pretty much come home from work…watch TV or play around on the computer for a while and that’s pretty much it. I don’t like to go out anywhere except when I have to and only whenever I have to. I don’t relate to people well either. I don’t have anything in common them. Seems so easy sometimes to be like everyone else and actually enjoy getting out and doing things but I just cant do it. I have thought of counseling but I don’t know what to expect when I go. I kind of always just figured I was just shy but I found out its worse than that. As far as relationships go well that’s been a big disappointment. Being SP for me means not having the nerve to ask someone out too so that doesn’t help my social life either. Well I hope I haven’t bored anyone. Earnest

Response:

Hey Earnest- welcome! I understand your problems. Many of us here are going through the same thing. Are you seeking treatment? I highly recommend you see a psychiatrist for therapy and meds. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well this is my first post so since the question was asked I will >answer. I have never been diagnosed with SP but I am pretty sure myself that >I suffer from it. I guess the main thing for me is my strong desire to avoid >all social contact period. I work full time in the public and have for about >four years and it has only gotten a little better since then. I have friends >who I feel comfortable around but to be honest they aren’t the most social >people either. I pretty much come home from work…watch TV or play around >on the computer for a while and that’s pretty much it. > I don’t like to go out anywhere except when I have to and only >whenever I have to. I don’t relate to people well either. I don’t have >anything in common them. Seems so easy sometimes to be like everyone else >and actually enjoy getting out and doing things but I just cant do it. I >have thought of counseling but I don’t know what to expect when I go. I kind >of always just figured I was just shy but I found out its worse than that. >As far as relationships go well that’s been a big disappointment. Being SP >for me means not having the nerve to ask someone out too so that doesn’t >help my social life either. Well I hope I haven’t bored anyone. > Earnest

=============== Grachman, The (grac…@aol.com) "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." – Shakespeare ==================

Response:

Try to rate your anxiety on a scale of 1-10. This will help if you start using the coping skills for social anxiety. eg – my anxiety now is a 4, that means I can handle it but I’m gonna have to focus on something else now before my anxiety gets outta control. If my anxiety reaches a 6, it will be far to late to do anything to reduce my anxiety. If I reach 10, I will have a full blown panic attack. I hope you understand this. In article <8a9f55$t6…@news.datacruz.com>, "league" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<lea…@datacruz.com> wrote: > confusion_h…@my-deja.com wrote in message > <8a6m4r$bg…@nnrp1.deja.com>… > > lhamm…@my-deja.com wrote: > >> Kathy, > >> I could go on forever about how SP disables me, > but to > >> put it simply: Social phobia disables my dreams. > I’ve been trying to look closely at what actually > happens. From what I > can tell it’s simple; we forget to think. That kind of > thinking we do in our > head, such as counting change in your head or reading > without moving your > lips; well, we forget to think. Our fight or flight > response has a hair > trigger and we forget to think. Because we don’t know > we are forgetting to > think we don’t know what is happening other than we > are helpless and > floundering. It might be worth it for you to try and > remember to think next > time you feel a fight or flight response coming on. > Let me know how it goes.

* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

Response:

kathy <KATHYNOKAS…@COMPUTASTORE.COM.invalid> wrote:

: WHAT HAVE YOU TRIED BLOODY VIKING. DO U EVEN READ BOOKS TO : TRY AND OVERCOME YOUR PROBLEM. THIS SOUNDS REALLY AWFUL, : BUT WHEN ARE YOU GONNA REALISE THAT YOU’RE NOT GONNA GET : BETTER BY AVOIDING SITUATIONS. I DO FEEL FOR U COS U : REALLY SOUND LIKE YOU’VE GIVEN UP AND U’VE JUST COME TO : EXCEPT THAT U’RE NOT GETTIN BETTER. THERE IS A WAY OUT : MATE, YOU’VE JUST GOTTA FIND IT AND NEVER GIVE UP. IF U DO : SOMETHING AND U FEEL THAT U’VE MESSED UP, DO U NEVER ASK : YOURSELF WHY U FELT THIS WAY? Yeah, there’s a way out all right. Now, about giving up. At what point do you say to yourself that an endeavour is futile? Trying to tackle SP without meds and/or ETS is _IMPOSSIBLE_. Just as impossible as attaining lightspeed in your car. How many times do you have to jump up to realise you will _NEVER_ do a slam-dunk? At some point you have to stare futility in the face and realise fitility is futility. How many times do you have to put a brick on the accellerator of a car before you realise you can _NEVER_ attain lightspeed? And how many times do you have to try bullshite self-help before you realise you will _NEVER_ overcome SP by those methods? — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4968238 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/

Response:

On Mon, 06 Mar 2000 02:27:05 -0800, kathy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<KATHYNOKAS…@COMPUTASTORE.COM.invalid> wrote: >HEY YA BLOODY VIKING – I’VE BEEN READING A LOT OF POSTS >FROM YOU. IT TOOK ME A LONG TIME REALISING THAT IT ISN’T >EVERYBODY ELSE THAT HAS THE PROB. IT’S ALL IN YER HEAD. >WE DON’T LIKE FEELING LIKE WE’RE THE CENTRE OF ATTENTION >BUT YET WE MAKE OURSELVES THE CENTRE OF ATTENTION. >WHAT HAVE YOU TRIED BLOODY VIKING. DO U EVEN READ BOOKS TO >TRY AND OVERCOME YOUR PROBLEM. THIS SOUNDS REALLY AWFUL, >BUT WHEN ARE YOU GONNA REALISE THAT YOU’RE NOT GONNA GET >BETTER BY AVOIDING SITUATIONS. I DO FEEL FOR U COS U >REALLY SOUND LIKE YOU’VE GIVEN UP AND U’VE JUST COME TO >EXCEPT THAT U’RE NOT GETTIN BETTER. THERE IS A WAY OUT >MATE, YOU’VE JUST GOTTA FIND IT AND NEVER GIVE UP. IF U DO >SOMETHING AND U FEEL THAT U’VE MESSED UP, DO U NEVER ASK >YOURSELF WHY U FELT THIS WAY? >LOOK, THIS IS ALL I’M GONNA SAY, IT BE NICE IF U STARTED >TAKING THE ADVICE POSTED ON THIS NG. >In article <WKOv4.357$181….@ord-read.news.verio.net>, >Bloody Viking <nos…@miles.wwa.com> wrote: >> kathy <KATHYNOKAS…@COMPUTASTORE.COM.invalid> wrote: >> : yeah, you’re definately sp, but everyone else has >> those >> : symtoms too. You probably don’t realise it, but >> those >> : symtoms are often not picked up by the normals. >> Anyway >> Actually, the symptoms ARE picked up by normies. >> Otherwise, it would be >> possible to ignore bullies and not have them amplify >> their efforts until >> you can no longer ignore them. CBT can not fix this. >> — >> CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in >> your reply! 152680 >> First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to >> people without money. >> 4968238 bytes of spam mail deleted. >> http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/ >* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

I don’t think you’re being fair to Blooddy Viking. If you’d taken the time to get to know BV a little better, you’d know that he’s made substantial effort to overcome his sp. I’ll give you just one example. BV lives in Chicago and I live near Madison, Wi. At my invitation, he drove 150 miles for an appointment with my doc (who I think is pretty good with sp and other anxiety problems). BV and I both visited the doc together and spent a considerable amount of time discussing his sp and how to treat it. He was prescribed Xanax, Paxil and a beta blocker (can’t recall the name of the beta blocker) all of which he took as prescribed. It took considerable courage and determination on BV’s part to contact me and agree to the appointment. Since you have sp too, you know how much anticipatory anxiety he went through during the days he waited for the appointment. And that doesn’t even come close to the anxiety he experienced and dealt with while he was actually here. His actions strike me as a direct confrontation of his sp; they most certainly were not indicative of avoidant behavior. Doug

Response:

kathy <KATHYNOKAS…@COMPUTASTORE.COM.invalid> wrote:

: yeah, you’re definately sp, but everyone else has those : symtoms too. You probably don’t realise it, but those : symtoms are often not picked up by the normals. Anyway Actually, the symptoms ARE picked up by normies. Otherwise, it would be possible to ignore bullies and not have them amplify their efforts until you can no longer ignore them. CBT can not fix this. — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4968238 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/

Response:

HEY YA BLOODY VIKING – I’VE BEEN READING A LOT OF POSTS FROM YOU. IT TOOK ME A LONG TIME REALISING THAT IT ISN’T EVERYBODY ELSE THAT HAS THE PROB. IT’S ALL IN YER HEAD. WE DON’T LIKE FEELING LIKE WE’RE THE CENTRE OF ATTENTION BUT YET WE MAKE OURSELVES THE CENTRE OF ATTENTION. WHAT HAVE YOU TRIED BLOODY VIKING. DO U EVEN READ BOOKS TO TRY AND OVERCOME YOUR PROBLEM. THIS SOUNDS REALLY AWFUL, BUT WHEN ARE YOU GONNA REALISE THAT YOU’RE NOT GONNA GET BETTER BY AVOIDING SITUATIONS. I DO FEEL FOR U COS U REALLY SOUND LIKE YOU’VE GIVEN UP AND U’VE JUST COME TO EXCEPT THAT U’RE NOT GETTIN BETTER. THERE IS A WAY OUT MATE, YOU’VE JUST GOTTA FIND IT AND NEVER GIVE UP. IF U DO SOMETHING AND U FEEL THAT U’VE MESSED UP, DO U NEVER ASK YOURSELF WHY U FELT THIS WAY? LOOK, THIS IS ALL I’M GONNA SAY, IT BE NICE IF U STARTED TAKING THE ADVICE POSTED ON THIS NG. In article <WKOv4.357$181….@ord-read.news.verio.net>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bloody Viking <nos…@miles.wwa.com> wrote: > kathy <KATHYNOKAS…@COMPUTASTORE.COM.invalid> wrote: > : yeah, you’re definately sp, but everyone else has > those > : symtoms too. You probably don’t realise it, but > those > : symtoms are often not picked up by the normals. > Anyway > Actually, the symptoms ARE picked up by normies. > Otherwise, it would be > possible to ignore bullies and not have them amplify > their efforts until > you can no longer ignore them. CBT can not fix this. > — > CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in > your reply! 152680 > First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to > people without money. > 4968238 bytes of spam mail deleted. > http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/

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Response:

kathy <kathyNOkaS…@computastore.com.invalid> wrote:

: I’m just curious to see how SP mainly disables you guys. For one, SP makes it impossible to fend off bullying by others. It makes escaping the post office impossible due to job interviews. And that’s just for starters. — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4968238 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/

Response:

Dear Kathy, here’s a list: It’s like my head is full of smoke. I don’t remember names. I don’t remember faces. My hands tremble if I do some work. I can’t remember what people writes in front of me. I can’t urinate in open public bathroom (for males) My muscles are painfully tense. My throat is tense. I feel awkward. In face there’s an expression of fear. People get sick of me very soon. These are the most evident. Davide

Response:

yeah, you’re definately sp, but everyone else has those symtoms too. You probably don’t realise it, but those symtoms are often not picked up by the normals. Anyway mate, get yourself somes CBT. Meds don’t cure by themselves. In article <38bf274c.690…@news.nettuno.it>, a…@a.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Davide) wrote: > Dear Kathy, > here’s a list: > It’s like my head is full of smoke. > I don’t remember names. > I don’t remember faces. > My hands tremble if I do some work. > I can’t remember what people writes in front of me. > I can’t urinate in open public bathroom (for males) > My muscles are painfully tense. > My throat is tense. > I feel awkward. > In face there’s an expression of fear. > People get sick of me very soon. > These are the most evident. > Davide

* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Mainly in being myself around people. It would be too difficult to be around them. Even if I endured it, I would feel really bad. So it affected my social life mainly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi all – I don’t regularly post here, mainly cos I am too >busy and I only have access at work. Just like the rest of >you lot, I suffer from social anxiety. I have been going >to group therapy since January and my last session is next >week. There is hope for SPics cos I consider myself 50% >better. I’ve noticed that I now have a more positive >outlook on life and I have noticed how I am now having more >pleasant thoughts. So, please do not post any more >negative posts about CBT, especially if you have not tried >it. IT WORKS! >Anyway, the main thing I have wanted to do in the past 5/6 >years is to go out on weekend nights and have a good dance >at a club. I also found it hard to relate to people on a >1/1 basis. This can still be difficult but at least I >don’t avoid those situations as I’ve got my coping skills >to help me overcome that problem. >I’m just curious to see how SP mainly disables you guys. >Everyone is different. A girl in my group has no problem >going to a club. She has loads of friends whereas another >girl has painful panic attacks when meeting people even tho >I see her as a very sociable girl with loads of friends. >* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find >related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is >Beautiful ></PRE></HTML>

=============== Grachman, The (grac…@aol.com) "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." – Shakespeare ==================

Response:

Being focused on makes me very uncomfortable, so I have lots of trouble contributing to group discussions even when I have something to add. I would really love to have a job so I could earn money for myself so I can buy some more clothes! but of course the thought of having to do an interview and having to deal with customers worries me… I have trouble making friends because I don’t talk to people if I don’t have to and when I am approached by a friendly person I tend to act indifferent and reserved…. The friends I have now were people who approached me and didn’t leave me alone even when I behaved as aloof as I possibly could – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m just curious to see how SP mainly disables you guys. >Everyone is different. A girl in my group has no problem >going to a club. She has loads of friends whereas another >girl has painful panic attacks when meeting people even tho >I see her as a very sociable girl with loads of friends.

Response:

Hi all – I don’t regularly post here, mainly cos I am too busy and I only have access at work. Just like the rest of you lot, I suffer from social anxiety. I have been going to group therapy since January and my last session is next week. There is hope for SPics cos I consider myself 50% better. I’ve noticed that I now have a more positive outlook on life and I have noticed how I am now having more pleasant thoughts. So, please do not post any more negative posts about CBT, especially if you have not tried it. IT WORKS! Anyway, the main thing I have wanted to do in the past 5/6 years is to go out on weekend nights and have a good dance at a club. I also found it hard to relate to people on a 1/1 basis. This can still be difficult but at least I don’t avoid those situations as I’ve got my coping skills to help me overcome that problem. I’m just curious to see how SP mainly disables you guys. Everyone is different. A girl in my group has no problem going to a club. She has loads of friends whereas another girl has painful panic attacks when meeting people even tho I see her as a very sociable girl with loads of friends. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful

Response:

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Is anyone else on prozac for panic attacks?

Anxiety Panic Attacks

Question:

I was recently(3 months ago) put on prozac for anxiety/panic disorder, but i thought przac was for really depressed people. if anyone has answers let me know

Response:

: : I was recently(3 months ago) put on prozac for anxiety/panic disorder, but i : thought przac was for really depressed people. if anyone has answers let me : know Prozac belongs to a family of medications generally called Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors (SSRIs, or SRIs for short). Basically, these medications affect how our bodies handle serotonin (a hormone and neurotransmitter). Serotonin plays a role in both depression and anxiety/panic disorders, so it’s often used in the treatment of both. Aside from serotonin, there are other hormones/transmitters associated with anxiety/panic. These things typically vary from person to person, so SRIs work very well for some folks and not so well for others. It all depends on the individual’s biochemistry. The bottom line is whether or not you feel better while taking the medication. If you feel better, then great! If you don’t feel better, then talk to your doctor about other options (other medications, other classes of medications, other therapies, etc.). Best Wishes, Arthur

Response:

Hi, yes I am on prozac for depression and anxiety/panic. I also take xanax everyday. I’m hoping once the prozac kicks in (I haven’t been on it very long) that I can use x as needed instead of all the time. Michelle says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was recently(3 months ago) put on prozac for anxiety/panic disorder, but i thought przac was for really depressed people. if anyone has answers let me know

Response:

I was recently(3 months ago) put on prozac for anxiety/panic disorder, but i thought przac was for really depressed people. if anyone has answers let me know

There are several people on this NG who take Prozac regularly for PD. In point of fact, although they are called antidepressants, most ADs also work for anxiety disorders too, so your prescription was very much the sort of thing you’d expect to be given. Hope that helps — Gary Cooper

Response:

: : I was recently(3 months ago) put on prozac for anxiety/panic disorder, but i : thought przac was for really depressed people. if anyone has answers let me : know The answer is no not really! A little depressed or big time doesn’t matter! snip Wow! That was great Arthur I loved your explantion! Prozac belongs to a family of medications generally called Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors (SSRIs, or SRIs for short). Basically, these medications affect how our bodies handle serotonin (a hormone and neurotransmitter). Serotonin plays a role in both depression and anxiety/panic disorders, so it’s often used in the treatment of both. Aside from serotonin, there are other hormones/transmitters associated with anxiety/panic. These things typically vary from person to person, so SRIs work very feel better while taking the medication. If you feel better, then great! If you don’t feel better, then talk to your doctor about other options (other medications, other classes of medications, other therapies, etc.). Best Wishes, Arthur if it seems rude but not the intent!<g Now my 2cents worth about prozac. It helps me with balance and blurred vision it also gives me a sense of well being. I used to take it but felt bad about taking it so I stopped. Then about a year later when I was all relaxed about taking it, I was surprised how well it works. I feel good all around and I think that applies to all meds it is a persons attitude about taking it. If you imagine the worst that is exactly what your going to get. I know first hand been there done that! Now I am glad I did take it with a better attitude. Warmest Regards, Bonnieblues

Response:

Just thought I’d let you know that I also take prozac for anxiety/panic attacks. I took it for almost 4 years and then I quit but now I’m getting back on it slowly but surely. Hope this helps. Teri

Response:

Hi! I am was on Prozac for both depression and panic attacks, but Prozac didn’t do much for it, so now I am on Buspar for the panic attacks. Paxil is an anti-depressant that also works really well for panic, but I had a severe allergic reaction to Paxil, so now I am on both. Give it some time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was recently(3 months ago) put on prozac for anxiety/panic disorder, but i thought przac was for really depressed people. if anyone has answers let me know There are several people on this NG who take Prozac regularly for PD. In point of fact, although they are called antidepressants, most ADs also work for anxiety disorders too, so your prescription was very much the sort of thing you’d expect to be given. Hope that helps — Gary Cooper

Response:

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ADD

Panic Attacks Treatment

Question:

Please help me

Response:

Please help me

Hi. You are calling for help. Can you let us know what kind of help you need? It sounds like you are hurting. Please give the Newsgroup a chance. There is help here. Kathy

Response:

13942 Alderton Road, North Silver Spring Maryland, 20906 writes: Please help me

Help with what? —

Response:

Laura: You’re probably remembering the media coverage of Dr. Lendon Smith (I hope I have the name right!) who was a very entertaining and therefore very highly televised pediatrician but very off the mark in terms of ADD. Smith wrote a number of books, most still in libraries I bet, with titles like "Improving Your Child’s Behavior Chemistry" or such – espousing intensive control of children’s nutritional intake. The idea was that many <most? behavior problems with children, esp what was then called simply "hyperactivity" were really forms a food allergies and could be treated by avoidance of the foods involved. The biggest focus as I remember was on sugar intake – too much sugar makes kids hyper, so take all "hyper" kids off all sugars…etc. Add in possible reactions to various additives… The problem with all of this is that it doesn’t work! Studies at the time showed that the apparent improvements with "some" children was more likely due to the child’s positive reaction to the intensive parental attention needed to maintain these astonishingly rigid diets. And I’d suggest that it also had a lot to do with removing the "Johnnie is a bad boy" attitude and replacing it with "Processed foods cause bad behavior" message. (Note the comments in Driven to Distraction by Hallowell and Ratey on "naming" as the beginning of treatment.) Anyhow… a while back … maybe ten years or so, this was the hottest topic on the talk show circuit. Numerous studies were done and as far as I know, none confirmed that this nutrition therapy was effective treatment. Hope this helps… …Christina

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Laura: You’re probably remembering the media coverage of Dr. Lendon Smith (I hope I have the name right!) who was a very entertaining and therefore very highly televised pediatrician but very off the mark in terms of ADD. Smith wrote a number of books, most still in libraries I bet, with titles like "Improving Your Child’s Behavior Chemistry" or such – espousing intensive control of children’s nutritional intake. The idea was that many <most? behavior problems with children, esp what was then called simply "hyperactivity" were really forms a food allergies and could be treated by avoidance of the foods involved. The biggest focus as I remember was on sugar intake – too much sugar makes kids hyper, so take all "hyper" kids off all sugars…etc. Add in possible reactions to various additives… The problem with all of this is that it doesn’t work! Studies at the time showed that the apparent improvements with "some" children was more likely due to the child’s positive reaction to the intensive parental attention needed to maintain these astonishingly rigid diets. And I’d suggest that it also had a lot to do with removing the "Johnnie is a bad boy" attitude and replacing it with "Processed foods cause bad behavior" message. (Note the comments in Driven to Distraction by Hallowell and Ratey on "naming" as the beginning of treatment.)

I don’t know how it works in the US but here in Australia the major way they differenciate between ADD and straight hyperactivity is the process you discribe, they take you off all cafine, food additives, processed sugars and anything that is seen as a stimulant. If your behaviour gets better, ie the symptoms of hyperactive behaviour disappear then you are classed as hyperactive, if the behaviour gets worse you are classified as ADD (note the number of people on this section of the net who consume huge amounts of caffine to remain sane). I don’t know what the general medical attitude in the US is but it works here. Hyperactivity here is generally listed as an overraction by the body to stimulants. Anyhow… a while back … maybe ten years or so, this was the hottest topic on the talk show circuit. Numerous studies were done and as far as I know, none confirmed that this nutrition therapy was effective treatment. Hope this helps… …Christina

I hope that this makes it a little clearer. The research that the Australian medical community is working off was done in Canada and the UK it was rejected by the US medical community for some strange reason. Esther

Response:

Hmmm….yes… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

WOW…. A group for an affliction that does not really exist!!!! Cool… Nobody had ADD, it is a mde up problem and the doctors and pharmacies are making a fortune off you guys… . . If we were not meant to eat animals why are they made out of meat…?

Response:

Live my life for one day and then say if it doesn’t exist. Total cost per month for ADD: Therapy: $20 Neruology: $10 Ritalin: $20 Total cost: $50 Against what I was paying before I was diagnoised $40 a month for therapy That’s a $10 difference, I think I can afford the $10 a month so I will never be as miserable as I was before I was diagnosed. Lara

Response:

WOW…. A group for an affliction that does not really exist!!!! Cool… Nobody had ADD, it is a mde up problem and the doctors and pharmacies are making a fortune off you guys…

If you are serious, then watch out: The party-liners are going to go after you in a big way. They will cancel your posts as they have done with mine and Dr. Frager’s, and they will send you threatening e-mail. I am crossposting my reply to alt.support.attn-deficit.doesnt-exist since it fits in so well. — YOU LIVE IN A RIGHT-WING DICTATORSHIP — REVOLT! Stop metric imperialism! Smash the radio monopolies!

Response:

Grow up. Sharon

Response:

WOW…. A group for an affliction that does not really exist!!!! Cool… Nobody had ADD, it is a mde up problem and the doctors and pharmacies are making a fortune off you guys… If you are serious, then watch out: The party-liners are going to go after you in a big way. They will cancel your posts as they have done with mine and Dr. Frager’s, and they will send you threatening e-mail.

I don’t agree with your opinions. I don’t usually respond to this kind of post, but I’m experiencing a moment of madness so here goes. A quote for the unbelievers(if you "get it" fine, if you don’t – well… it would explain alot): "God is dead!" -Nietzsche "Nietzsche is dead." -GOD VERY SINCERELY, Mother of an ADHD; ritalin, pamelor, trazadone taking; gifted with IQ 130; absolutly fantastically, wonderfully, loving, creative, and imaginative, kid!

Response:

WOW…. A group for an affliction that does not really exist!!!! Cool… Nobody had ADD, it is a mde up problem and the doctors and pharmacies are making a fortune off you guys…

Hmmm, then how come I’m so much richer now that I’m giving my doctor and pharmacist all that money? — Jaelle

Response:

Channel 4 had a 5 min interview on this new prod called Kid’s Plex supposed to be a natural alternative to Ritalin. Very impressive.

Response:

maman) writes: Channel 4 had a 5 min interview on this new prod called Kid’s Plex supposed to be a natural alternative to Ritalin. Very impressive.

Which channel 4? Mark S. Probert Merrick, New York

Response:

Channel 4 had a 5 min interview on this new prod called Kid’s Plex supposed to be a natural alternative to Ritalin. Very impressive.

uh huh….. is there a non-biased non-sales source of information on this?

Response:

I can only speak from personal experience, and that has been most of what current educators receive in the form of on going training is covered by union contracts. Therefore you can just demand that they attend this or that training. Sure many educators are going out of their way to attend training on ADD, but many, many more need much more than the onr time, one hour program. The Depart of Education has detailed information on several pilot ADD Inservice programs around the country. Most of these are very intensive, ie. 12+ hours at least. Additionally our chapter started an inservice committee. We use the CH.A.D.D. inservice curriculum. We invite our members to invite us to speak with their principals, teachers, etc. Then we work with the school to schedule the time and place. These have ranged from a "quickie" =) 15 min w/ the principal, to the most common 45minute for educators and the full 3 hour program from district wide programs, PTA, etc. Over the past several years we have put on about twenty different programs. Depending on the audience, we use trained parents, or members of our Professional Advisor Committee. The demand usually exceeds our ability to provide the help. It’s been a very good response from our Snohomish Co., Washington educators. Richard Dandridge Television Equipment Operator, Lead Classroom Services, T-291A 357175 543-6729, fax # 543-0531 University of Washington Seattle, Washington 98195-3090 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you go about getting school districts to run programs for the teachers so they better understand how to deal with ADD kids. — Joe Izzo

Response:

Ask the principal at your local school. Ask other parents at the school who may also have ADD students. Keep asking. Be persistent. Be assertive. Don’t give up. Speaking as a parent with two ADD children, this method has been much more effective than asking the school district’s administration office, which usually ignored us. Good luck. Paul Nufer, ADDult in Kalamazoo, MI

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you go about getting school districts to run programs for the teachers so they better understand how to deal with ADD kids.

Response:

What I did was compile a bunch (o.k. a stack) of current information that I got on the net (mostly from the CHADD homepage and links). I made copies in triplicate and gave a copy to each of the people I felt needed it to help my son. This was all before the recent LD testing and IEP stuff. I made sure when I gave them to his teacher, his social counselor and 1 extra for a file folder somewhere, that I said "I believe you are a great teacher. I am not giving this info to you because I feel you don’t know about ADD/ADHD. I am giving this info. to you because there are always new methods etc. for dealing with and teaching children with this disorder. I want you to have the most recent information. Please work with me to provide TC with the best learning situation." She accepted the info. with open arms and teases me to this day about "the stack" that I brought her to read……and she did. She is working with us actually today to introduce his new teacher, find out what text books he’ll have (so I can order tapes from RFBD) and other behavioral stratagies. When they asked me what kind of teacher I felt was best, I said "One that makes him feel emotionally safe" He can’t focus to learn if he is worried about other things. Anyhow’s what happened with "the stack" is that it got taken into the staff meetings and the social counselor *made* them review the info. and distributed what the teachers felt would help them understand children in their classes too. Good luck, Kariena

Response:

While I agree with the comments already stated, my personal experience in raising an ADD daughter has been to at least be sure to meet with her teachers and discuss my concerns with them. I keep a notebook of info gleaned from the internet about ADD and offer it to them to read at the beginning of the school year so they better understand what we are dealing with. For any who are difficult, I also have a copy of Dr. Joseph C. LaVoie’s outstanding PBS program "FAT City Workshop" (where FAT stands for Frustration, Anxiety, and Tension). In it, Dr. LaVoie makes VERY clear the problems of learning disabled children and the failures of many teachers to handle them properly. It’s the finest resource I’ve found to persuade the difficult. By the way, he makes the viewers experience learning disability first hand by simulating the problems for them. Even parents of non-LD kids I know have watched the tape and loved the teaching techniques it has — if you want to understand what your child is enduring, get this tape. I first got it through my local CHADD chapter, and you probably could, too. Good luck in your efforts. Just remember that the entire educational system is a bit too large to overhaul, but reason and caring can be useful tools to reach the individual teachers your child encounters. If enough concerned parents do that, the system will follow.

Response:

I really believe that it would take an act of God… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you go about getting school districts to run programs for the teachers so they better understand how to deal with ADD kids. — Joe Izzo

Response:

My eight year old is about to go through a battery of test to see if he has Attention Deficet Disorder (ADD). Is there anyone out there that could tell me what to expect?

In great detail — but a better place to ask is alt.support.attn-deficit Not that you shouldn’t crosspost — despite the abuses of crossposting, a question about ADD kids is entirely appropriate for both misc.kids and asa-d (but probably not mkh). The most important part of the testing involves getting a history from everyone who spends much time with him. Obviously, his parents; also teachers, neighbors who see him a lot, other relatives, etc. It can be pretty important to get input on more than one context because the hallmark of ADD is inconsistency and a comparison of his response to different environments is very helpful. He may also take some in-the-office tests. Some of these use observation, pencil, and paper; they suffer from the stress- induced focus that often accompanies a novel situation. Newer ones such as the TOVA use semirandom computer-generated stimuli and are somewhat more reliable. Some practitioners use EEG monitoring of the subject, but these tests are controversial. One thing for sure: whether your son has ADD or not, the fact that you have to have him tested suggests that you need to adopt a more studied approach to parenting. In many cases this is all that is needed; in others additional modalities such as counseling and medication are necessary for him to get the best results. (And it’s really for HIM, now isn’t it?) — D. C. & M. V. Sessions http://www.primenet.com/~sessions under construction

Response:

How do you go about getting school districts to run programs for the teachers so they better understand how to deal with ADD kids. — Joe Izzo

Response:

If anyone wants an Australian input on possible ways to alleviate the problem. Contact us by email. Cheers, Jim — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

Like what? Eucalyptus oil? Goanna grease? Vegemite? If you are here trying to flog off some scam involving natural remedies or new age behavioural modification, I think I had better tell you straight away – it doesn’t work, and it won’t work here at this group. On the other hand, if your input is genuinely productive and helpful then welcome Kinda tired of trolls and spammers at this ng now. Cheers jAm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone wants an Australian input on possible ways to alleviate the problem. Contact us by email. Cheers, Jim — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

Understand your frustration. I’ll get to the point. We market a PC product for significantly reducing biological stress from screen based radiation. We have our own market and we do not need to advertise as most of our business is word of mouth. A number of our clients have ADD afflicted children and have remarked that their son/daughter has improved somewhat as a result of conditioning the AC power (to which the PC is connected). If you want more dialgogue, I am happy to participate. Cheers, Jim — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

Well, I don’t want to be rude BUT GO AWAY!!! This is a support group, not a marketplace!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Understand your frustration. I’ll get to the point. We market a PC product for significantly reducing biological stress from screen based radiation. We have our own market and we do not need to advertise as most of our business is word of mouth. A number of our clients have ADD afflicted children and have remarked that their son/daughter has improved somewhat as a result of conditioning the AC power (to which the PC is connected). If you want more dialgogue, I am happy to participate. Cheers, Jim — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

My AC power is conditioned as all Hell–among other things I sell power conditioning equipment, and anybody who follows any of several newsgroups knows about the melt-down I went through last week. Can’t imagine any "power conditioning" gadget doing anything for a CRT that the myriad adjustments available with a G200 and a SuperScan 753 can’t match or exceed. As for the "biological stress from screen-based radiation" I thought that that old canard had gone out when every country in the civilized world adopted strict standards for radiation emission from CRTs. I’m amazed that anybody can still sell it. — — — John Reply to jclarke at eye bee em dot net

Response:

My AC power is conditioned as all Hell– …

[snip] Can’t imagine any "power conditioning" gadget doing anything for a CRT that the myriad adjustments available with a G200 and a SuperScan 753 can’t match or exceed. As for the "biological stress from screen-based radiation" I thought that that old canard had gone out when every country in the civilized world adopted strict standards for radiation emission from CRTs. I’m amazed that anybody can still sell it.

[snip] " … Our chief weapon is suprise — surprise and fear — fear and surprise — Our two weapons are fear and surprise — and ruthless efficiency … " Paraphrased from http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Scripts/TheSpanishInquisitionSketch — Martin G. Diehl I am what I am. All opinions expressed within are strictly my own.

Response:

This message for Jam. Jam, are you a UQ student with an ADD problem or simply offering support? If you are the former, contact me via email and I will make arrangements for you to get hold of me by phone. If you are the latter then, I would say to you that we have received a grant to do furthe research of the technology that our group has developed.(Being with UQ you probably can appreciate the seriousness that this sort of venture entails). We would be prepared to offer our knowledge to your Department at no cost. You can then report back to the support group yourself before slamming the door. (Yes we are Queenslanders and proud of it). Peter. — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

I am sure I posted it quite clearly in plain English, but "go away" means just that. I am not interested in your product or services. This is a support newsgroup, not a marketplace. If you continue, I will inform the university that you are using a support newsgroup to market your crap technology, and then their support might dwindle. Got that, sunshine?

(Yes we are Queenslanders and proud of it). Peter.

And I damned ashamed of Queensland because of bacteria like you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

In other words, ADHD is caused by "screen based radiation." And, happily, we are fortunate that YOU are here to, um…sell us the solution. How typical; you even got the "email me for details" part into it. Do you have any idea just how offensive and unwelcome this kind of solicitation is in this support newsgroup–and how inappropriate? Joe Parsons Keeper of the ASAD FAQ — I do not wish to receive *any* Unsolicited Commercial E-mail (UCE). I consider sending me such unwanted mail to be willful harassment. You *don’t* want to do that.

Response:

I for one, would like to hear of some natural remedies, since I can’t afford to go to the doc, I would like a chance of treating myself – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like what? Eucalyptus oil? Goanna grease? Vegemite? If you are here trying to flog off some scam involving natural remedies or new age behavioural modification, I think I had better tell you straight away – it doesn’t work, and it won’t work here at this group. On the other hand, if your input is genuinely productive and helpful then welcome Kinda tired of trolls and spammers at this ng now. Cheers jAm If anyone wants an Australian input on possible ways to alleviate the problem. Contact us by email. Cheers, Jim — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

I for one, would like to hear of some natural remedies, since I can’t afford to go to the doc, I would like a chance of treating myself

I guess it is easier for us, here in Canada, to make a choice that is right for us: doctor’s visits are paid for by the provincial health plans. We just have to pay the medication, and, since we use Generic Ritalin, it is really a lot cheaper than the natural remedies. And it becomes a lot more affordable when you consider that natural products cannot be claimed on our insurance plans, but prescription products can. In our case, though, that was not the decisive factor, it was the fact our 7 yo simply could not swallow the foul smeller, extremely big Effalex capsules, I even have problems with them. About self-treatment and self-medication: It is always hazardous to self-medicate, because you often have no way of knowing exactly what you’re doing and how to monitor the results. Also, with natural remedies, because they’re all considered supplements, not medicinal, they are not regulated and tested in the same way, therefore some adverse side effects, and there are some, are not even indicating on the packaging. Isn’t there any way you can consult a doctor, even it meant dealing with your GP? It’s just that the results with Natural Remedies are not very consistant and not very good. Some report marked improvements while the majority remark no improvements or very little improvement, not enough to warrant the expense. — Danielle, Writing from Canada Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html My ICQ # is 6463692 Canadian Special Education Chat Room – http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html &canspec ICQ # 33710657

Response:

See messages from BigRog in this discussion for a permanent solution with no downside or side effects? — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

In other words, ADHD is caused by "screen based radiation." And, happily, we are fortunate that YOU are here to, um…sell us the solution.

But…I don’t get it… I’ve been offline for 2 weeks now, and I’m not cured yet… God life sucks sometimes. :P *star* Disclaimer: This post is not a flame. Any resemblance to any flames, living or dead, is purely coincidental. No flames were harmed in the making of this post. Have a nice day. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

In other words, ADHD is caused by "screen based radiation." And, happily, we are fortunate that YOU are here to, um…sell us the solution. But…I don’t get it… I’ve been offline for 2 weeks now, and I’m not cured yet…

Is it that easy to test the null hypothesis? God life sucks sometimes. :P

– Martin G. Diehl I am what I am. All opinions expressed within are strictly my own.

Response:

Er, you do know that a textbook can be written, and published, by *ANYONE* and that doesn’t mean it contains good information, right? You also know that *WE* knew that, right? …kinda.makes me sleep better knowing that

Whoops. I guess you didn’t know that. …… if and I say if you want to know anything about it, you will have to ask nicely, and I will tell you where to go, and I mean that in a nice way

Translation: you don’t want to expose your bullshit to public inspection; you want to try to snow people elsewhere. Not that this surprises anyone here. — Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like: Once you pull the pin on Mr. Hand Grenade, he is no longer your friend.

Response:

The snake oil I am using, has just had an entire immunology textbook chapter written on it…kinda.makes me sleep better knowing that…… if and I say if you want to know anything about it, you will have to ask nicely, and I will tell you where to go, and I mean that in a nice way…..Jim :) "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." — MAX PLANCK

Response:

JMO, if the "snake oil" you’re using is (a) so great and (b) of no profit to you, then I am baffled as to why you don’t just state what it is you are using, instead of hiding behind web links and "gyconutrional" babble. — Later, Pam —"How can there be too many children? That is like saying there are too many flowers." Mother Teresa << – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like what? Eucalyptus oil? Goanna grease? Vegemite? If you are here trying to flog off some scam involving natural remedies or new age behavioural modification, I think I had better tell you straight away – it doesn’t work, and it won’t work here at this group. On the other hand, if your input is genuinely productive and helpful then welcome Kinda tired of trolls and spammers at this ng now. The snake oil I am using, has just had an entire immunology textbook chapter written on it…kinda.makes me sleep better knowing that…… if and I say if you want to know anything about it, you will have to ask nicely, and I will tell you where to go, and I mean that in a nice way…..Jim :) "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." — MAX PLANCK

Response:

IT SURE LOOKED LIKE EVERYONE WAS GETTING A HOLD ON WHAT THIS MEANS TO THEM IN THIS LIFE. I LIKED THAT ALOT…BUT BECAUSE OF MY SO VERY DARK IN-SECURITES (I SPEHT THE NIGHT IN THE PHYSC WARD, DEGRACED ANDY FAMILY MEMBERS ,…SSSSHHHH AUNT IT COMING…BUT BOY MY LIFE WOULD HAVE BETTER OFF WITHOUT THE STAIS CO (I WAS ADMITTED) GUYS I JUST CAN’T JUMP THIS H(RRDLE. ANDY HELP??????? ((JGN))

Response:

Andy, What set you off? Fargo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -IT SURE LOOKED LIKE EVERYONE WAS GETTING A HOLD ON WHAT THIS MEANS TO THEM IN THIS LIFE. I LIKED THAT ALOT…BUT BECAUSE OF MY SO VERY DARK IN-SECURITES (I SPEHT THE NIGHT IN THE PHYSC WARD, DEGRACED ANDY FAMILY MEMBERS ,…SSSSHHHH AUNT IT COMING…BUT BOY MY LIFE WOULD HAVE BETTER OFF WITHOUT THE STAIS CO (I WAS ADMITTED) GUYS I JUST CAN’T JUMP THIS H(RRDLE. ANDY HELP??????? ((JGN))

Response:

HAS ANYONE HAD SUCCESS WITH GETTING THEIR CHILD OFF CYLERT. MY SON PRESENTLY TAKES 1 1/2 TABLET AND I AM CONSIDERING TAKING HIM OFF THE MEDICATION BECAUSE OF THE SIDE EFFECT THAT I THINK IT HAS SLOW DOWNED HIS GROWTH., BUT I KNOW THAT HE NEEDS IT TO FUNCTION. HE IS CURRENTLY TAKING THE PYGENOGENOL WITH GREAT HELP.. ANY PARENTS OUT THERE THAT HAVE HAD SOME SUCCESS.. DEANN

Response:

He doesn’t need Cylert to function – maybe just another psychostimulant with fewer sides. I am not current on the latest info on Cylert, but I know two things – liver enzymes go up during beginning phase of treatment (liver cells release enzymes when they die) and Cylert is my doctors absolute last choice of treatment as far as drugs in this category. You are going to have to wean him off very slowly, but your doc should be able to help there. Maybe when he’s down to a very low dose your doc might consider adding small dose of something else – it is worth a try in my opinion. I don’t know your opinion on kids taking Schedule II’s for ADD. Your doc may have his own views as well. If you want more info on ADD meds do a search on ADHD ADD psychostimulants and you should get some good hits and different points of view. I’ve walked a mile in your son’s shoes – I wish him well. If you see any current info on gene therapy research let me know – I promise CIBA and co. got their beady little eyes on the research. God Bless, GH

Response:

What information do you have on gingko bilboa in treating ADD?

Response:

What information do you have on gingko bilboa in treating ADD?

Aw, geez. It’s hard to say. I tried it for a few weeks and then kept forgetting to take it. I read in some health magazine that it might take a month or more to notice a sharper mind. I saw no change (maybe even MORE scatterbrained), but then I was taking discount-store stuff. The problem with treatments like this is, no one really knows how much to use or in what form. I’d love to see somebody do a few more studies. I think it would be great if it worked. I wish I could tell you if it did or not. I have a bunch of good quality ginkgo capsules now, but I have been too distracted to remember to take them. Joy

Response:

(TReyes5804) writes: What information do you have on gingko bilboa in treating ADD?

It doesn’t. Mark Probert LI, New York I will honor the privacy of email, and expect the same.

Response:

This is a long post: I have heard of schools that have emanded that parents place their children on Ritalin. Of course the school makes it seem like it is the childs fault and also the parent’s fault if they don’t agree to place their children on Ritalin I will allow others to comment on other parts of your post concerning ADD "facts" — which if I recall correctly, come from the same website (Breggin’s) (I believe that this guy is very anti-medication and has made big bucks promoting his books with this position.)

He is, he does promote his books, and he’s an incompetent liar. I once invented a drinking game where I had one shot of beer for every logical error Breggin made. This included fallacies, outright lies, exaggerations, and false implication tracing. I didn’t make it a third of the way through the book before I had to give it up. There are only about 27 shots of beer in a 40oz bottle. I believe the only reason I got to the 1/3 way point was that I wasn’t as sure of fallacies after I’d gotten more than halfway through the bottle so quickly. — "Everything I needed to know in life, I learned in kindergarten. Like: morality must exist beyond the purview of a deity if morality is to have a meaning beyond tyranny.

Response:

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KICKING PAXIL

Anxiety Panic Attacks

Question:

Well it’s going on 5 weeks without PAXIL AND I feel human again. Paxil worked great for me until the side effects were killing me. The Dr. has me on xanax and klonopin and thats seems to be a good combo for me. I tried for three years to get off Paxil, only to get flooded with adrenaline and or anxiety-panic attacks. The depression has not returned yet, (knock on wood) but the depression wasn’t the reason for the paxil.One Dr. put me on it so he could try to taper me off of xanax, witch was working fine for me. He said "xanax is addictive so I don’t want that to happen to you." For Christ sake I have ben on benzo’s for 15 years and I think it’s a little late to worry about the addiction/dependence of benzo’s. I know YMMV but if you ever want to give up paxil, you may want to try the X and K combo. (ask your DR.) John

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well it’s going on 5 weeks without PAXIL AND I feel human again. Paxil worked great for me until the side effects were killing me. The Dr. has me on xanax and klonopin and thats seems to be a good combo for me. I tried for three years to get off Paxil, only to get flooded with adrenaline and or anxiety-panic attacks. The depression has not returned yet, (knock on wood) but the depression wasn’t the reason for the paxil.One Dr. put me on it so he could try to taper me off of xanax, witch was working fine for me. He said "xanax is addictive so I don’t want that to happen to you." For Christ sake I have ben on benzo’s for 15 years and I think it’s a little late to worry about the addiction/dependence of benzo’s. I know YMMV but if you ever want to give up paxil, you may want to try the X and K combo. (ask your DR.) John

Glad that you’ve found a solution that works for you. Lori from SF Not one shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.

Response:

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Help ?

Panic Attacks Treatment

Question:

Hi, I’m suffering PA’s, sleep disorder and anxiety, sometimes my thoughts are so fast, sometimes I get very low. My PA’s are linked with situations I find difficult, like being trapped, the anxiety though is nearly all the time. I don’t take any medication, I tried sleeping tablets but they really knock me out the next day and don’t help with the sleep problem in the long term. I don’t want to complain, I want help ! Please can someone let me know what ways there are to deal with it if any….or point me in the right direction, I hate being like this. — Mark S-D

Response:

Hi, Mark – welcome to ASAP. The first port of call really should be your doctor, though when you say you’ve tried sleeping tablets, does this imply that you’ve already seen one? Either way, treatment *is* available and it really can help. Try asking your GP for help and see if you can get a referral to someone with experience handling anxiety problems. This might entail either medications or a course of cognitive behavioural therapy, or both. Meanwhile, I’m e-mailing you our FAQ, which is full of useful stuff. Good luck! — Gary Cooper

Response:

** Hi Mark;-) Hi, I’m suffering PA’s, sleep disorder and anxiety, sometimes my thoughts are so fast, sometimes I get very low. My PA’s are linked with situations I find difficult, like being trapped, the anxiety though is nearly all the time. I don’t take any medication, I tried sleeping tablets but they really knock me out the next day and don’t help with the sleep problem in the long term. I don’t want to complain, I want help ! Please can someone let me know what ways there are to deal with it if any….or point me in the right direction, I hate being like this.

** The first step is always to see your doctor. If your panic attacks aren’t better accounted for by any other pysical problems (of which many do mimic panic symptoms, and can frighten you an thus highten your anxiety), it would seem best to find find a specialist who understands anxiety disorders. That’s the first step in the right direction, I’d say. To help yourself, so that you may better understand what current treatment methods are, visit: http://www.algy.com/anxiety/anxiety.html That’s but one of several sites, but an excellent place to begin in learning more, so that you can participate in your own therapy, which is often quite important. — Used wisely, your 2

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PAs went away while pregnant!! EXPLAIN that one.

Panic Attacks Cure

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ** Seriously, though, the "women" here have expressed some ideas and experiences that shouldn’t be overlooked. "IF" there is a hormonal aspect at work here, and it’s not being looked into, well, it should be. <snipped Well, it’s not a grant thing…it’s an interest in the field thing. Where there is a reseacher wanting to do the work, grant money can be found. From what I’ve seen, theoretical research is much easier to do than application. <snipped (It’s great to be posting again, but I’ll probably have to stop at the end of the year). -Kendra

Dr S posted a couple of months ago that estrogens provide a degree of protection against PA’s in women. This is probably why women who are predisposed to have PA’s have such a hard time during premenstrual days, a time when estradiol plummets. During pregnancy, estrodiol remains elevated, so I’m not surprised that the frequency of PA’s diminishes. Thank goodness — there’s so many other things to worry about! I’m on the other side when it comes to gender bias in psychiatric illness. I think men have been given the short side, since women have been the ones to seek help most often. I’m glad that a lot of guys are coming out now. It will be a big help to other men on down the road. Anita

Response:

In my third month it seemed like my panic almost disappeared. I had some anxiety wondering what was wrong with me. Wondering why I wasn’t haveing panic attacks like I always have..

(smiling) that sounds like a way I would think … "what’s wrong with me – I feel ok!" continued for the rest of my pregnancy.I probably only had three attacks the whole time I was pregnant. Anyway, I had my son Oct. 27th. Four days after that, PAs came back in full force. They actually have gotten worse. No one has an explanation for this.

I don’t know what it could be (I have a limited education in physiology as compared to an M.D.) but I have some guesses. But first – it gives me hope that you *didn’t* have panic attacks while pregnant. I haven’t really been having them much anymore, but I’m also still taking immipramine (which seems to have really helped me). And I’ve worried about getting pregnant and then not taking the medication and being pregnant AND having a bunch of panic all over again. So, it makes me feel hopeful you *didn’t* have them. My guess would be something to do with the estrogen and other chemicals which are going through your body when you’re pregnant. I don’t know that much about what is happening – but I do know your body chemistry changes quite a bit. And my best guess on the panic attacks being worse *after* your son was born is probably something along the same physiological lines as post-partum depression. Do you have some good medical insurance? Because I would bet that there’s got to be a doctor out there (gynacologist? neurologist?) who is a specialist in the chemical changes in a woman’s body when she’s pregnant, who might have some answers. I think it’s *definitely* worth looking into! My personal belief is that it’s a mental AND physical thing and that there must be ways to cure it through both helping our minds and our bodies. Who knows, you may end up not only finding out why they lessened while pregnant, but may find an answer as how to eleviate them altogether! good luck – Julia — "Beware the bad cat bearing a grudge."

Response:

: : I found out I was pregnant in February of this year. Anyway for the first : two months I still had panic attacks. I was really worried about haveing : another child.(I’m always worried I’ll go crazy in front of my kids!) In : my third month it seemed like my panic almost disappeared. I had some : anxiety wondering what was wrong with me. Wondering why I wasn’t haveing : panic attacks like I always have.. (Eight long years now.) This :Hi Robin, : :This happens to many, if not most, women who get pregnant, from what :I have heard from my doctor and read on my own. (doesn’t happen with :all women – I remember at least one person (Kate?) saying she still :had pa’s during her pregnancy) It’s a hormonal thing. When I found :this out, I asked my doctor if going on the pill (birth control) would :help eliminate panic attacks, since it tricks your body hormonally :into thinking its pregnant (and that’s why you don’t get pregnant). :She said, hmmm, I never thought of that. So, we gave it a try, and :yes, it drastically reduced my panic attacks. However, since I am :sensitive to medications, for other reasons I couldn’t take the type f dosage I needed, so she put me on the lowest dose, which helps :somewhat with the pa’s, but not substantially. : Ah,two things — the pas disappeared in the third month, the biological beginning of some heavy, heavy changes biologically (in a prior life I thought I wanted to be a doctor and studied a bit). Second, I have heard the same thing about birth control pills and reduced pas. However, considering the cycling nature of bc pills, another possibility is a minimal dose of Premarin (0.625/day or even half a pill). Or for those worried about the source of Premarin, estradial or another sysnthetic estrogen. Good question. Now, as to why isn’t it being studied: an awful lot of male doctors see pas in females as "a female thing." Now, in number, they are certainly not a majority of doctors and researchers, but it might be a factor regarding the possibility of research funding on this. Kristin — Kristin Rachael Hayward http://130.111.120.13/~hayward

Response:

(snipped what I said) Well, it’s not a grant thing…it’s an interest in the field thing. Where there is a reseacher wanting to do the work, grant money can be found. ~~snip~~ Anyone have any words of wisdom? Or should I ask you all to bombard his e-mail with pleas? We *need* him…if you all knew him, you would love him, he’s smart and a *great* person…really cares about people. What do you think? Would you be willing to write him?

** Kendra, it’s interesting in what you say here. I was going to add to the end of my post that if we all knew where to write, we should bombard them;-) REALLY. ** I wouldn’t dare to suggest to email YOU GUYS. With the genetics involved, it probably would involve serious molecular research as well. If you’re serious, however, what do I have to lose by emailing, when it concerns the main thing in my and everyone elses lives in ASAP (and other NG’s)? ** As they say, be careful what you wish for. Make sure, Kendra, my dear;-) (It’s great to be posting again, but I’ll probably have to stop at the end of the year).

** Great to have you back, even if it’s only for "bits" at a time. — Used wisely, your 2

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Anxiety-Panic Dictionary

Anxiety Attack Symptoms

Question:

Just a schedule note… I’m attending a surprise birthday party for a friend tonight, and I’ll probably be staying there until my Monday appearance at a PD lecture. So I may be away from my computer <sniffle until Monday afternoon. Just wanted to let everyone know why I might fall a bit behind with post or e-mail response this weekend. I look forward to continuing our dictionary when I get back. Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend. Best Wishes, Arthur

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) – chronic pain or discomfort :associated with the intestines. Hi Everyone.. I don’t know how to do that snipping thing so I’m winging it. (Any suggestions, please e-mail). But my question is… I noticed Arthur put IBS in his ASAP dictionary. Is there any proof (or reason to believe) that IBS and panic are directly related? I’ve had IBS my whole adult life and find it interesting that panic occurs when I go into stomache distress. I guess I shouldn’t because they’re obvioussly both stress related. Also… Since I’m relatively new to this group, can any veterans enlighten me on success stories. I don’t want details, just an idea of what % of us have overcome this. (I guess I’m really asking for hope.) Thanks, LauraThere are some experts who think that Panic, IBS and other problems are

related as part of a spectrum disorder. IBS may respond to antidepressant treatments that are also helpful for depression and Panic. It can also be treated with psychological approches as can panic and depression. — Jim Claiborn Ph.D. ABPP This is a test, only a test. If this had been your real life you would have been given instructions on where to go and what to do.

Response:

Alprazolam (Alprox, Xanax, Xanor) – a Benzodiazepine medication which is highly effective in treating Cholecystokinin related Anxiety-Panic Disorders. In some cases, alprazolam can be addictive at high doses (approx. 8 mg?). Alprazolam should not be discontinued abruptly or seizures may result; it is best to slowly wean off the medication. When taken as directed, this medication is safe and effective.

Hi Arthur- Physical dependence on Alprazolam is dose related, but I haven’t seen a reference that gives a low threshold dose, below which dependence will not occur (I’ve been poring over Bloom and Kupfer’s "Psychopharmacology", or "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About How Drugs Affect the Brain in a Book So Big You’ll Never Find the Specific Fact You Need" <g. Even low doses will produce dependence, although the symptoms of withdrawal will be lessened. The only way to avoid some sort of dependence is intermittent use, in which the drug is allowed to completely clear from the body regularly. Development of dependence and tolerance vary widely between individuals (surprise!). If you’re going to include a warning about dependence, which is a good idea, I would remove reference to dosage. I would also suggest the addition of: Diazepam (see Valium)- the first of a series of effective anti-anxiety agents to become underprescribed, even when clearly indicated by symptoms, due to misrepresentation in the mainstream media. <wry g Best wishes, Hirsch

Response:

Ho hum….. whistle whistle…. Alprazolam (Alprox, Xanax, Xanor) – a Benzodiazepine medication which is highly effective in treating Cholecystokinin related Anxiety-Panic Disorders. In some cases, alprazolam can be addictive at high doses (approx. 8 mg?). Alprazolam should not be discontinued abruptly or seizures may result; it is best to slowly wean off the medication. When taken as directed, this medication is safe and effective.

I feel this is a bit excessive. If we are going to add this much about this particular med, why not all the others? Aren’t we at risk of straying into professional prescribing territory? Any views? <pensive frown — Gary Cooper

Response:

Hi Arthur, I like this idea very much. I’ll have to read over your list several times because I feel there are several suggestions I have but they’re not clear to me right now. The ones that stand out are: Alprazolam (Xanax) – a Benzodiazapine medication which is highly effective in treating Cholecystokinin related Anxiety-Panic Disorders.

Is Xanax effective only in CCK-related disorders? I’ve heard about CCK recently, but didn’t think it was only this. Anticipatory Anxiety – anxiety which is caused by the expectation of anxiety in a particular situation.

Perhaps expectation of "panic" or "discomfort" or "harm", instead of anxiety – can we kick this one around a bit? Benzodiazapine – a group of medications that block the neurotransmitter Cholecystokinin.

Same as above Biofeedback – a technique for controlling Psychosomatic responses through heightened awareness and practice.

This one to me seems to need a little more, I’ll think on it. Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) – an Anxiety Disorder that is independent of situation.

Needs a little more? just like with what you have written in Anxiety Attacks and Anxiety Disorder. Group Therapy – a psychological therapy where a small group of people share their thoughts or feelings under the guidance of a psychologist.

Add, or psychotherapist Panic Attack (PA) – an extreme form of an Anxiety Attack that results in disabling symptoms and sometimes even temporary paralysis or fainting.

I don’t think the "temporary paralysis or fainting" part should be on here. For one, it’s very scary for people to read, and I don’t think it’s helpful. For two, these two symptoms are very rare, as rare as many others that I’ve heard of, and I don’t think we want to be listing a whole host of symptoms that rarely are experienced by the majority. I’ve already deleted the Anxiety Attack category, so I can’t read all the symptoms you listed in it right now, but perhaps we should see if there are any symptoms that would be considered under a pa that wouldn’t be under an anxiety attack, for instance, depersonalization. But, this is a distinction I make that others may not agree with. Panic Disorder (PD) – an extreme form of Anxiety Disorder characterized by Panic Attacks.

My understanding is that Panic Disorder is just the new term for Agoraphobia Psychoanalysis – a branch of Psychology concerned with issues of emotional conflict and repression which are often attributed to childhood experiences. Psychology – a discipline concerned with mental and emotional processes.

You’ve delineated psychoanalysis and CBT from psychology, I wonder if it would be helpful to also include the other "specialties." I think most people don’t even realize that therapist do specialize. I could list several types so that when someone is choosing a therapist they will be more informed (e.g. psychodynamic, Bowenian) or would this be too detailed and cumbersome? Especially since only CBT is regularly cited as the most effective for PD. I see positives and negatives both with leaving it out and putting it in. Therapists are as specialized as doctors, but when I ask people what type they’re going to, rarely does anyone know. Maybe just a statement under psychology would be sufficient, like "there are dozens of types/specialties of therapies, it may be good for you to discover the different types and decide which would best suit your needs." (Just some random thoughts, you can ignore all this if you want.) Good work, Arthur, thanks for this. -Kendra

Response:

Sure I can post it regularly. In the near future, I’ll probably set it up as a web site too (that way I can add groovy graphics and make it look ohhhhh soooo impressive <g).

Hey! Great idea, Arthur! You could add-in some really scary graphics and unexpected loud explosions and stuff… : Here are a few preliminary thoughts. Many thanks. I have added your contributions and posted an updated version. Let me know what you think.

Will do…. Meanwhile, back at the ranch… : Should this not be SSRI – with the first S standing : for "selective"? This seems to be a fashion issue. I’ve been told by my docs that they currently prefer SRI over SSRI. I asked if the SSRIs were less *selective* now and they grinned. I think SRI is just easier to say day after day, and results in fewer lisps.

LOL! Perhaps we should have SSRI added in brackets as well, then? It is still used a bit and it’d be a shame to confuse people. First grade teacher reads to the class, "See Bobby Panic. Panic Bobby Panic. … Can you say Benzodiazepine?"

ROFLMAO! — Gary Cooper

Response:

Just a suggestion but I would say that the difference between the two is something like this: Depersonalization – an altered and unreal perception of ourselves, our feelings and our situation. Derealization – an altered and unreal perception of things and objects around us in space/time. These are extremely brief but in other words derealization has more to do with incoming stimulus and data, whereas depersonalization has to do with what’s already in there.

Interesting! I’ve never been at all sure what the distinction was. Do others agree? Has anyone got a "professional" description? [Just so's we can all laugh at it, say 'Typical! Bloody pshrinks, never have a panic attack in their lives and get the descriptions all wrong' then go away and use Rob's? ] — Gary Cooper

Response:

:Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) – chronic pain or discomfort :associated with the intestines. Hi Everyone.. I don’t know how to do that snipping thing so I’m winging it. (Any suggestions, please e-mail). But my question is… I noticed Arthur put IBS in his ASAP dictionary. Is there any proof (or reason to believe) that IBS and panic are directly related? I’ve had IBS my whole adult life and find it interesting that panic occurs when I go into stomache distress. I guess I shouldn’t because they’re obvioussly both stress related. Also… Since I’m relatively new to this group, can any veterans enlighten me on success stories. I don’t want details, just an idea of what % of us have overcome this. (I guess I’m really asking for hope.) Thanks, Laura

Response:

Wow arthur, great list. well done. Hilde: little woman from Holland with panic attacks.

Response:

I think this is an excellent idea. Thank you for taking the initiative, Arthur, and thanks to everyone who contributes. Kate

Yes I will print all of this and maybe try to add something too. Great he? hilde

Response:

: Hi Arthur – great idea! Would you post it regularly as an FAQ? Sure I can post it regularly. In the near future, I’ll probably set it up as a web site too (that way I can add groovy graphics and make it look ohhhhh soooo impressive <g). : Here are a few preliminary thoughts. Many thanks. I have added your contributions and posted an updated version. Let me know what you think. : Depersonalization – : : Oof! Shall we form a committee? We’ll probably have too. I’m still struggling to pin down a description of this. : Derealization – : : Ditto – I can never distinguish between the two. You mean, the two don’t cancel eachother out? : Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor (SRI) – a group of medications : that slow the absorption of Serotonin by neurons in the : brain. Such medications include Paxil, Prozac, and Zoloft. : : Should this not be SSRI – with the first S standing : for "selective"? This seems to be a fashion issue. I’ve been told by my docs that they currently prefer SRI over SSRI. I asked if the SSRIs were less *selective* now and they grinned. I think SRI is just easier to say day after day, and results in fewer lisps. : I’ll keep thinking about this. : : Ooh! Could we make it into a colouring book? "My first : panic anxiety reader?" ROFL I can see it now… First grade teacher reads to the class, "See Bobby Panic. Panic Bobby Panic. … Can you say Benzodiazepine?" Best Wishes, Arthur

Response:

I noticed Arthur put IBS in his ASAP dictionary. Is there any proof (or reason to believe) that IBS and panic are directly related? I’ve had IBS my whole adult life and find it interesting that panic occurs when I go into stomache distress. I guess I shouldn’t because they’re obvioussly both stress related.

Hi Laura – I can’t cite you chapter and verse but, just as you say, IBS is *definietly* stress-related and it seems that PD is also exacerbated/brought about by stress. The two go together far too often for it to be mere coincidence. Also… Since I’m relatively new to this group, can any veterans enlighten me on success stories. I don’t want details, just an idea of what % of us have overcome this. (I guess I’m really asking for hope.)

Hmm… well… after twenty years of this, in the past year I’ve gone from being confined to about 1/4 mile around my home and incapable of crossing bridges, etc to being able to travel several miles, cross bridges, use busy roads, visit people’s homes – all due to sorting out some head stuff, gradual de-sensitisation and the Blessed St. Xanax Hope that helps, — Gary Cooper

Response:

It occurs to me that my patients with panic disorder often have children who show similar tendencies. Agoraphobic parents’ feelings about their agoraphobic children are worth exploring. It is a source of great discomfort to my patients and one which I have only seen a single posting for on this board. In many of my long term patients I hear stories that the person felt constitutionally different from an early age. At least one strain of the illness shows high genetic penetration in family members with the whole family having the illness. How all of these rejection sensitive children will react to mom missing high school graduation adversly? These sort of issues need to be more openly addressed. How many of you our there are adult children of panic disorder people? Who grew up with an agoraphobic out there and has it now? Dr. S.

Dr. S. My father was/is agoraphobic and, as far as I can tell, had two separate & distinct "severe" times (homebound). My parents won’t talk about it, so I can only guess at some of this. He, by the way, deals with it by letting it happen (he’s 80 now, and very healthy). About 7 yrs ago, while in a restaraunt, he looked at my pale face, sweaty palms, and said "go ahead & have your attack & get it over with." I think that’s how he deals with it. To answer your 1st question about parent’s feelings about their PD children, I now get support from them, but only in recognition, not help or encouragement, but as I said, choose to avoid the subject (whisper…it’s like the "c" word). Regarding other family members, I have two brothers. One has always been anxious, overweight (but won’t share his thoughts) but I know he’s on prozac. My younger brother reaches out to me. Over the past 2 yrs, I’ve gotten calls from him from his car (I’m in one state, he’s in another), airports, etc. as he’s having anxiety attack symptoms, and is worried about ending up like me. He’s had the usual symptoms, but in our conversations I can generally find a "good reason" for his anxiety, and thus it seems more incident related at this point than PD….but I’m keeping an eye on him…and also feeding him info on what I’m doing (which he’s interested in), so "if" he really has the genetic predisposition, he’ll be able to recognize it and get "proper help" right away if he starts having PA’s on a regular basis. I can’t say how my dad’s PD affected me because I didn’t know about it. My 1st PA was when I was 29 (47 now) but I can go back and see that I had symtoms that I just wrote off, such as feeling disoriented in restaraunts & movies. It was a harbinger, and I didn’t avoid those situations, BUT was leary of them. It was about 6 months into my agoraphobic behavior that my parents first told me about my dad’s experiences (in a very limited way). I hope more people respond and that I am not alone. EJK — The food here is terrible, and the portions are so small.

Response:

: How many of you our there are adult children of panic disorder people? : Who grew up with an agoraphobic out there and has it now? Hi Dr. S., My mother, and her mother, both have some degree of anxiety disorder, but I seem to be the first with full blown panic attacks. None of us three, however, developed significant agoraphobia. Best Wishes, Arthur

Response:

I’m not sure whether this helps or hinders your hypothsis, Dr. S. but I had two agoraphobic aunts, neither of whom I ever met, nor did I realise had agoraphobia till years after I developed it. But their brother, my father, was not agoraphobic. To me, this suggests nature, not nuture… — Gary Cooper

Response:

<some snipping Also… Since I’m relatively new to this group, can any veterans enlighten me on success stories. I don’t want details, just an idea of what % of us have overcome this. (I guess I’m really asking for hope.) Thanks, Laura

Ok, Laura, no details, but you can count me in as a success story. PD is, and I think will always be, a part of my life. But I have not had a panic attack in almost 2 years due to a combination of meds and CBT. I live a rich and fulfilling existence now. Hope that helps. Kate

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It occurs to me that my patients with panic disorder often have children who show similar tendencies. Agoraphobic parents’ feelings about their agoraphobic children are worth exploring. It is a source of great discomfort to my patients and one which I have only seen a single posting for on this board. In many of my long term patients I hear stories that the person felt constitutionally different from an early age. At least one strain of the illness shows high genetic penetration in family members with the whole family having the illness. How all of these rejection sensitive children will react to mom missing high school graduation adversly? These sort of issues need to be more openly addressed. How many of you our there are adult children of panic disorder people? Who grew up with an agoraphobic out there and has it now? Dr. S. Dr. S. My father was/is agoraphobic and, as far as I can tell, had two separate & distinct "severe" times (homebound). My parents won’t talk about it, so I can only guess at some of this. He, by the way, deals with it by letting it happen (he’s 80 now, and very healthy). About 7 yrs ago, while in a restaraunt, he looked at my pale face, sweaty palms, and said "go ahead & have your attack & get it over with." I think that’s how he deals with it. To answer your 1st question about parent’s feelings about their PD children, I now get support from them, but only in recognition, not help or encouragement, but as I said, choose to avoid the subject (whisper…it’s like the "c" word). Regarding other family members, I have two brothers. One has always been anxious, overweight (but won’t share his thoughts) but I know he’s on prozac. My younger brother reaches out to me. Over the past 2 yrs, I’ve gotten calls from him from his car (I’m in one state, he’s in another), airports, etc. as he’s having anxiety attack symptoms, and is worried about ending up like me. He’s had the usual symptoms, but in our conversations I can generally find a "good reason" for his anxiety, and thus it seems more incident related at this point than PD….but I’m keeping an eye on him…and also feeding him info on what I’m doing (which he’s interested in), so "if" he really has the genetic predisposition, he’ll be able to recognize it and get "proper help" right away if he starts having PA’s on a regular basis. I can’t say how my dad’s PD affected me because I didn’t know about it. My 1st PA was when I was 29 (47 now) but I can go back and see that I had symtoms that I just wrote off, such as feeling disoriented in restaraunts & movies. It was a harbinger, and I didn’t avoid those situations, BUT was leary of them. It was about 6 months into my agoraphobic behavior that my parents first told me about my dad’s experiences (in a very limited way). I hope more people respond and that I am not alone. EJK — The food here is terrible, and the portions are so small.

Dear EJK: Family dysfunction in PD clusters is a phenomenon where the parents find it impossibly hard to convey to or support in their children. I have gotten some personal e-mail replies on this subject, but it seems one that has gotten swept under the rug. As you described, the problems antedate the full panic attacks by years. Family members with the same illness are offended whent they try to talk to eachother about it. Would like to hear more from others on this important subject. Dr. S.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Depersonalization – : : Oof! Shall we form a committee? We’ll probably have too. I’m still struggling to pin down a description of this. : Derealization – : : Ditto – I can never distinguish between the two. You mean, the two don’t cancel eachother out?

Hi Arthur and Gary Just a suggestion but I would say that the difference between the two is something like this: Depersonalization – an altered and unreal perception of ourselves, our feelings and our situation. Derealization – an altered and unreal perception of things and objects around us in space/time. These are extremely brief but in other words derealization has more to do with incoming stimulus and data, whereas depersonalization has to do with what’s already in there. Depersonalization concerns our concept of *self* – who and what we are together with our value and our interaction. I know the second one (derealization) sounds like Dr Who but it can’t be denied that when it hits it isn’t just a visual thing. BTW Arthur the dictionary is a great idea! — ROB… "high mileage but reliable!"

Response:

Hi All, Once again, here is the most recent draft of the Anxiety- Panic Dictionary. Please feel free to suggest changes to the current definitions or recommend more terms to be defined. Everyone’s contributions are welcome via post or e-mail. If anyone wishes to remain anonymous, simply tell me to not add your name to our contributors. Thank you. Best Wishes, Arthur ASAP Dictionary of Anxiety and Panic Disorder Compiled by Arthur Anderson with contributions by Gary Cooper, Ilkka Karvinen, Elisabeth Shaw Acrophobia – a Phobia of heights. Adrenaline – a hormone that… Agoraphobia – a Phobia of Anxiety or Panic Attacks that often results in a growing avoidance of things or situations. Alcohol – consumption of alcoholic beverages may relieve anxiety in the short term for some cases, but are generally considered to aggravate Anxiety and Panic Disorders. It is interesting to note that consumption of alcohol can affect Serotonin levels in the brain. Alprazolam (Alprox, Xanax, Xanor) – a Benzodiazepine medication which is highly effective in treating Cholecystokinin related Anxiety-Panic Disorders. In some cases, alprazolam can be addictive at high doses (approx. 8 mg?). Alprazolam should not be discontinued abruptly or seizures may result; it is best to slowly wean off the medication. When taken as directed, this medication is safe and effective. Alprox – see Alprazolam. Alt.Support.Anxiety-Panic (ASAP) – an Internet Usenet newsgroup that focuses on Anxiety and Panic Disorders. Anticipatory Anxiety – anxiety which is caused by the expectation of anxiety in a particular situation. Anxiety Attack – an episode of extremely uncomfortable anxiety. Such attacks are often accompanied by dizziness, concentration difficulties, Hypersensitivity, muscular weakness, breathing difficulties, irregular heart beat, and sensations of fear. Severe forms of anxiety attacks are usually called Panic Attacks. Anxiety Disorder – a disorder characterized by chronic Anxiety Attacks. There are many possible causes for anxiety disorders which may be Psychological, Psychiatric, or perhaps even Neurological in nature. Anxiety disorders are known to aggravate cardiac disorders. Arachnophobia – a Phobia of spiders. Basilar Vessel – a vessel that supplies blood to the brain. Spasms of the basilar vessel can reduce blood flow, and thus oxygen, to the brain which can result in anxiety or panic attacks. Behavioral Therapy (BT) – a Psychological therapy to overcome anxiety by gradual exposure to the cause of anxiety. Benzodiazepine – a group of medications that block the neurotransmitter Cholecystokinin. Such medications include Alprazolam, Klonopin and Valium. Biofeedback – a Psychological technique for controlling Psychosomatic responses through heightened awareness and practice. Cholecystokinin (CCK) – a neurotransmitter which is known to cause Panic Attacks. Claustrophobia – a Phobia of closed spaces or being trapped. May occur with elevators, escalators, etc. Cognitive Therapy (CT) – a Psychological therapy to overcome Anxiety by modification of thinking habits. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) – a coordinated application of Cognitive and Behavioral Therapy. Compulsive – descriptive of thoughts or behavior which are automatic responses to anxiety. Depersonalization – a diminish sense of one’s own personality; a sense of emotional numbness. Depression – a profound sense of unhappiness or futility. Chronic depression can be Psychological and/or Psychiatric. Adj. Depressive. Derealization – a diminish perception of one’s surroundings. Dopamine – Fluoxetine (Fontex, Prozac, Seronil) – a Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor medication. Fontex – see Fluoxetine. Free Association – speaking your thoughts and feelings without regard to how others might judge them; an important aspect of Psychotherapy. Gamma-Aminobutyric Acid (GABA) – Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) – an Anxiety Disorder that is independent of situation. Group Therapy – a Psychological therapy where a small group of people share their thoughts or feelings under the guidance of a psychologist. Hypersensitivity – exaggerated sensitivity. Anxiety and Panic Disorders can increase a person’s sensitivity to light, sound, smell, taste, touch, balance, and even emotional issues. Such sensitivity can have Psychosomatic effects. Hyperventilation – excessive breathing that causes oxygen levels in the blood to rise above normal and results in symptoms similar to Anxiety and Panic Disorders. In such cases, breathing into a bag or one’s own shirt can help since exhaled air has lower levels of oxygen. Hypnosis – a Psychological technique involving relaxation and voluntarily ignoring conscious thought processes. Hypnosis attempts to directly access the unconscious mind. Hypnotic Psychotherapy – exploring unconscious impressions while under Hypnosis. Useful when Anxiety-Panic is based on severe psychological Repression. Hypnotic Suggestion – modifying unconscious tendencies through Hypnosis. Sometimes useful for specific Phobias, but questionably useful for Anxiety-Panic Disorders. Hypochondria – an exaggerated concern of diseases or medical disorders that can result in Psychosomatic symptoms. Hypoglycemia – a blood sugar condition which can cause fainting and has symptoms similar to Anxiety-Panic Disorders. This condition can be diagnosed with a blood sugar test. Adj. Hypoglycemic. Imipramine – a Tricyclic Antidepressant medication. Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) – chronic pain or discomfort associated with the intestines. Klonopin – an effective Benzodiazepine medication, widely used in the treatment of Panic Disorder. Lightheaded – feeling that you might faint. Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor (MAOI) – a highly effective antidepressant, less favored due to major dietary restrictions. Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP) – a Psychological therapy which uses a voice message that is intended to condition the conscious or unconscious mind. Often sold as cassette tape recordings. Neurology – a field of medicine concerned with the brain and nervous system. Adj. Neurologic. Neurosis – Nocturnal Bruxism – clenching and/or grinding of teeth while sleeping. May be associated with Serotonin. Noradrenaline (Norepinephrine) – Obsessive – descriptive of thoughts or behavior which are frequently repeated to abate anxiety. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) – a disorder characterized by Obsessive and Compulsive tendencies. Panic Attack (PA) – an extreme form of an Anxiety Attack that results in disabling symptoms and sometimes even temporary paralysis or fainting. Panic Disorder (PD) – an extreme form of Anxiety Disorder characterized by Panic Attacks. Paroxetine (Paxil) – a Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor medication. Paxil – see Paroxetine. Phobia – an exaggerated fear. Adj. Phobic. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) – any Anxiety or Panic Disorder based on a traumatic experience. Prozac – see Fluoxetine. Psychiatry – a field of medicine concerned with chemical interactions in the brain and how they affect mental and emotional processes. Adj. Psychiatric. Psychoanalysis – a branch of Psychology concerned with issues of emotional conflict and repression which are often attributed to formative childhood experiences. Adj. Psychoanalytic. Psychology – a discipline concerned with behavioral, mental and emotional processes. The clinical application of psychology is generally called Psychotherapy. Adj. Psychological. Psychosomatic – descriptive of symptoms that seem physical but are actually caused by some form of psychological stress. Psychotherapy – any Psychological therapy. Psychotherapies include Behavioral Therapy, Cognitive Therapy, and Psychoanalysis. Such therapies typically involve open discussion of emotional issues. Adj. Psychotherapeutic. Repression – a resistance to acknowledge an uncomfortable memory or feeling. Severe repression can result in Anxiety or Panic Attacks. This condition can be treated through Psychoanalysis. Adj. Repressive. Selective Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor (SSRI) – psychiatrists now prefer the abbreviated term Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor (both terms refer to the same group of medications); see Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor (SRI). Seronil – see Fluoxetine. Serotonin (5-HT) – a neurotransmitter associated with appetite, sleep, and Anxiety-Panic Disorders. In some cases, a serotonin imbalance may be responsible for Cholecystokinin surges. Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor (SRI) – a group of medications that slow the absorption of Serotonin by neurons in the brain. Such medications include Fluoxetine, Paroxetine, Sertraline. Sertraline (Zoloft) – a Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor medication. Social Phobia – a Phobia of social situations; with exaggerated fears of rejection, humiliation and persecution. ??? cause/treatment Temporal Lobe Seizure – a seizure of the brain’s temporal lobe that can cause temporary paralysis, a sensation of fear, and occasionally hallucinations. Temporal lobe seizures may be responsible for sleep paralysis (AKA old hag) or even misinterpreted as UFO abduction experiences. Such seizures may also be the basis for the incubus and succubus of legend. Tricyclic Antidepressant (TCA) – an older class of antidepressant medications, still widely used in the treatment of Anxiety-Panic Disorder. Imipramine (and many others) are in this group. Triscadecaphobia – a Phobia of the number 13. Valium – an older Benzodiazepine medication, still sometimes used in the treatment of Anxiety-Panic Disorders. Vertigo – a sense of dizziness or weakness. Xanax – see Alprazolam. Xanor – see Alprazolam. Zoloft – see Sertraline.

Response:

: : Ooh! Could we make it into a colouring book? "My first : panic anxiety reader?" ROFL I can see it now… First grade teacher reads to the class, "See Bobby Panic. Panic Bobby Panic. … Can you say Benzodiazepine?"

Ha ha!! <g Very funny idea, but all joking aside I reckon that all kids SHOULD be taught anxiety/stress management from an early age. As the schools don’t do it then it’s up to us. Many of us feel our problems stem from our early years. Getting back to depersonalization/derealization it seems that many of us remember these from early childhood, myself included. From what I’ve taught my own kids I can guarantee that they do understand these concepts and the lessons can be extremely beneficial and reassuring to small children. We have a feeling that we should hide any talk of anxiety from our kids, perhaps to shield them from it’s evil influences. I think this is wrong and that it’s never too young for them to learn. In modern society much of what we teach them is confusing to say the least. We’ll make them terrified of strangers *for their own safety* then inform them on Christmas Eve that a bearded old man is going to sneak into their bedroom. What we, as adults, are most guilty of is not properly answering the questions of small children. It’s easier to brush the question aside or answer it with rubbish, and hence we sow the seeds of misconception to be carried over into later life. As a little kid I could never get a straight answer out of an adult, yet I didn’t understand that they were effectively lying. I had a favourite toy clock which, although it had no workings, every adult insisted they could hear *ticking*. Although they could clearly see my distress the same stupid joke went on and on until I outgrew the toy. I think we have a duty to make sure, for example, that our kids know there ISN’T really a tooth fairy. We can still enjoy the same rituals, games and traditions but it must be explained to them that it’s only fun and make-believe. Prevention is always better than cure so perhaps *My First Panic-Anxiety Reader* is in fact a very sound idea? — ROB… "high mileage but reliable!"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I thought it might be helpful for us to compile a dictionary of anxiety-panic terms which we commonly use in our discussions. Please feel free to suggest new terms or changes to existing definitions. Everyone’s comments are welcome. Below is a rough first draft. Hi Arthur – great idea! Would you post it regularly as an FAQ? Here are a few preliminary thoughts. Benzodiazapine – a group of medications that block the BenzodiazEpine (and throughout text) :) Claustrophobia – fear of closed spaces. Perhaps "… and being trapped?" (this would then include, for example, escalators).

can we add "agoraphobia" to this, too? Sertraline (Zoloft) – a Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor medication. Perhaps add?

Also may want to add fluoxetine (Prozac), paroxetine (Paxil) and other SSRI antidepressants to that. Perhaps add? Valium – an older Benzodiazepine medication, still sometimes used in the treatment of Anxiety-Panic Disorders.

May also want to add Xanax if you’re going to talk about benzos, since that seems to be very commonly used…with the disclaimer about it being addictive. I’ll keep thinking about this. Ooh! Could we make it into a colouring book? "My first panic anxiety reader?"

Cute idea! beth. a newcomer to asap.

Response:

I think this is an excellent idea. Thank you for taking the initiative, Arthur, and thanks to everyone who contributes. Kate

Response:

Hi Arthur – great idea! Would you post it regularly as an FAQ? Here are a few preliminary thoughts. Benzodiazapine – a group of medications that block the

BenzodiazEpine (and throughout text) :) Claustrophobia – fear of closed spaces.

Perhaps "… and being trapped?" (this would then include, for example, escalators). Depersonalization –

Oof! Shall we form a committee? Derealization –

Ditto – I can never distinguish between the two. Perhaps add? Klonopin – an effective Benzodiazepine medication, widely used in the treatment of PD. Perhaps add? MAOI – Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor. A highly effective antidepressant, less favoured due to major dietry restrictions. Psychiatry – a field of medicine concerned with chemical interactions in the brain and how they affect mental and emotional processes.

Are pshrinks happy with that these days? (poor dears, we mustn’t upset their feelings <snigger) Psychology – a discipline concerned with mental and emotional processes.

Perhaps add "…and behaviour" ? Serotonin – a neurotransmitter associated with appetite, sleep, and Anxiety-Panic Disorders. In some cases, a serotonin imbalance may be responsible for Cholecystokinin surges.

Perhaps add "…also known as 5-HT" ? Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor (SRI) – a group of medications that slow the absorption of Serotonin by neurons in the brain. Such medications include Paxil, Prozac, and Zoloft.

Should this not be SSRI – with the first S standing for "selective"? Sertraline (Zoloft) – a Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor medication.

Perhaps add? Tricyclic antidepressant (sometimes "TCAs") – Older class of antidepressant medications, still widely used in the treatment of Anxiety-Panic Disorder. Imipramine (and many others) are in this group. Triscadecaphobia – fear of the number 13.

Perhaps add? Valium – an older Benzodiazepine medication, still sometimes used in the treatment of Anxiety-Panic Disorders. I’ll keep thinking about this. Ooh! Could we make it into a colouring book? "My first panic anxiety reader?" — Gary Cooper

Response:

Hi All, I thought it might be helpful for us to compile a dictionary of anxiety-panic terms which we commonly use in our discussions. Please feel free to suggest new terms or changes to existing definitions. Everyone’s comments are welcome. Below is a rough first draft. Best Wishes Arthur ASAP Dictionary of Anxiety and Panic Disorder Compiled by Arthur Anderson with contributions by … Acrophobia – a fear of heights. Agoraphobia – a fear of Anxiety or Panic Attacks that often results in a growing avoidance of things or situations. Alprazolam (Xanax) – a Benzodiazapine medication which is highly effective in treating Cholecystokinin related Anxiety-Panic Disorders. Alt.Support.Anxiety-Panic (ASAP) – the Internet Usenet newsgroup that focuses on Anxiety and Panic Disorders. Anticipatory Anxiety – anxiety which is caused by the expectation of anxiety in a particular situation. Anxiety Attack – an episode of extremely uncomfortable anxiety. Such attacks are often accompanied by dizziness, concentration difficulties, hypersensitivity, muscular weakness, breathing difficulties, irregular heart beat, and sensations of fear. Severe forms of anxiety attacks are usually called Panic Attacks. Anxiety Disorder – a disorder characterized by chronic Anxiety Attacks. There are many possible causes for anxiety disorders which may be Psychological, Psychiatric, or perhaps even Neurological in nature. Anxiety disorders are known to aggravate cardiac disorders. Arachniphobia – a fear of spiders. Behavioral Therapy (BT) – a Psychological therapy to overcome anxiety by gradual exposure to the cause of anxiety. Benzodiazapine – a group of medications that block the neurotransmitter Cholecystokinin. Biofeedback – a technique for controlling Psychosomatic responses through heightened awareness and practice. Cholecystokinin (CCK) – a neurotransmitter which is known to cause Panic Attacks. Claustrophobia – fear of closed spaces. Cognitive Therapy (CT) – a Psychological therapy to overcome Anxiety by modification of thinking habits. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) – a coordinated application of Cognitive and Behavioral Therapy. Depersonalization – Derealization – Fluoxetine (Prozac) – a Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor medication. Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) – an Anxiety Disorder that is independent of situation. Group Therapy – a psychological therapy where a small group of people share their thoughts or feelings under the guidance of a psychologist. Hypochondria – an exaggerated concern of diseases or medical disorders. Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) – chronic pain or discomfort associated with the intestines. Neurology – a field of medicine concerned with the brain and nervous system. Panic Attack (PA) – an extreme form of an Anxiety Attack that results in disabling symptoms and sometimes even temporary paralysis or fainting. Panic Disorder (PD) – an extreme form of Anxiety Disorder characterized by Panic Attacks. Paroxetine (Paxil) – a Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor medication. Paxil (Paroxetine) – a Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor medication. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) – Prozac (Fluoxetine) – a Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor medication. Psychiatry – a field of medicine concerned with chemical interactions in the brain and how they affect mental and emotional processes. Psychoanalysis – a branch of Psychology concerned with issues of emotional conflict and repression which are often attributed to childhood experiences. Psychology – a discipline concerned with mental and emotional processes. Psychosomatic – descriptive of symptoms that seem physical but are actually caused by some form of psychological distress. Serotonin – a neurotransmitter associated with appetite, sleep, and Anxiety-Panic Disorders. In some cases, a serotonin imbalance may be responsible for Cholecystokinin surges. Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor (SRI) – a group of medications that slow the absorption of Serotonin by neurons in the brain. Such medications include Paxil, Prozac, and Zoloft. Sertraline (Zoloft) – a Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor medication. Triscadecaphobia – fear of the number 13. Vertigo – a sense of dizziness or weakness when confronted with heights. Xanax (Alprazolam) – a Benzodiazapine medication which is highly effective in treating Cholecystokinin related Anxiety-Panic Disorders. Zoloft (Sertraline) – a Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitor medication.

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alt.support.dissociation FAQ 2/4

Anxiety Panic Attacks

Question:

Archive-name: dissoc-faq/part2 Last-modified: 1996/03/15 Posting-frequency: bi-monthly Section 2 Dissociation and Dissociative Disorders: A Formal Look === 2.0 Overview This section contains a somewhat formalized look at dissociation and dissociative disorders, as well as containing information on some disorders that the author feels are related, either symptomatically or in their effects. === 2.1 Dissociation *** 2.1.1 Definition of Dissociation Dissociation is the state in which, on some level or another, one becomes somewhat removed from "reality", whether this be daydreaming, performing actions without being fully connected to their performance ("running on automatic"), or other, more disconnected actions. It is the opposite of "association" and involves the lack of association, usually of one’s identity, with the rest of the world. A dissociative disorder would be one in which the degree of dissociation (or the frequency of it) is such that one’s functioning is somehow impaired. The DSM-III-R defines a dissociative disorder, generally, as one in which there "is a disturbance or alteration in the normally integrative functions of idneity, memory, or consciousness. The distrubance or alteration may be sudden or gradual, and transient or chronic." It is important to note that a certain amount of dissociation is considered completely normal; most (if not all) people experience dissociation at least periodically in their life, and some mental health workers consider dissociation to be a healthy defense mechanism, provided the dissociation itself does not cause impairment of functioning. === 2.2 Dissociative Disorders Some mental health care workers and psychological researchers disagree with the definition of dissociative disorders as presented in the DSM-III-R, as they feel it is an arbitrary definition; they feel that dissociation is an aspect of many other, similar disorders. Because of that, it is difficult to list just what is a dissociative disorder. The DSM-III-R considers the following to be dissociative disorders: Multiple Personality Disorder (in DSM-IV, dissociative identity disorder) Psychogenic Fugue Psychogenic Amnesia Depersonalization Disorder *** 2.2.1 Multiple Personality Disorder Multiple Personality Disorder is defined as the existence within a person of two or more distinct personalities or personality states, in which at least 2 of these personalities "take control" of the functioning of the body at given points. Each personality controls the body seperately, and there is a memory loss for at least some personalities when others are in control of the body. Other personalities may have wildly different traits, belief systems, relationships, names, and so forth. Some clinical studies have shown that EEGs differ by personality. The personalities may themselves have other psychological disorders, such as depression; these disorders may be present in only one, some, or all of the personalities. The degree of interaction and/or cooperation of the personalities varies extremely; the degree of co-consciousness (the state of being able to share memories of the various personalties’ actions, and being able to cooperate in the control of the body) also varies extremely. Age of onset for MPD is usually (nearly always) in childhood. In nearly all cases of MPD, there was childhood abuse or other severe childhood trauma. MPD is noted in females more often than in males. The degree of impairment ranges from minimal to extreme. No figures are available on the prevalnce of MPD (and this is a hotly contested area). Differential Diagnoses: Psychogenic Fugue and Psychogenic Amnesia, while having some of the qualities of MPD, do not have the shifts in personality. Schizophrenia sometimes includes fragmented thought and the perception of voices in ones head, as well as a feeling of being controlled by another entity; however, the shift in control does not appear as it does within MPD, and schizophrenic patients generally report their voices as being external in origin. Borderline Personality Disorder is marked by instability in mood, action and thoughts; however, these different, conflicting ideas, beliefs, and goals are resident within a single personality. *** 2.2.2 Psychogenic Fugue and Psychogenic Amnesia Psychogenic Fugue is the assumption of a new idenity and the inability to recall one’s previous identity; it involves a complete switch in lifestyle, including home and/or work recall. This is usually caused by severe psychosocial stress, such as severe marital problems, being a part of military conflict, or being in some type of natural disaster. Psychogenic Amnesia is a sudden inability to recall important personal information, when not due to any organic cause. Like Psychogenic Fugue, this is usually caused by severe psychosocial stress Both psychogenic fugue and psychogenic amnesia are sudden, and they both are usually fairly short-lived, with a complete recovery made. They are most common during wartime or just after a natural disaster. Differential Diagnoses include epilepsy and other forms of amnesia; both are also sometimes feigned (malingering). *** 2.2.3 Depersonalization Disorder Depersonalization disorder is either a persistent or recurring alteration in one’s perception of one’s self, such as a feeling of detachment from one’s actions or thoughts, or feeling like an observer of one’s own actions. Alternatively, one may feel as if one is an automaton, without conscious will of one’s actions, or feel as if one is dreaming, rather than actually performing, one’s actions. Depersonalization Disorder is caused by severe stress; it is not uncommon to have a single instance of depersonalization (but this is usually not recurrent or persistent) due to stress. It is usually found in younger adults (late adolescence/early adulthood). Depersonalization may be accompanied by derealization, the alteration of one’s perception of one’s surroundings, which leads to the feeling that the world is not real. It is sometimes also accompanied by dizziness, depression, anxiety, or other similar disorders. Differential Diagnoses include many mood disorders, organic disorders, anxiety disorders, personality disorders, and schizophrenia. Although not listed in the DSM-III-R as a differential diagoisis, MPD may have similar traits. *** 2.2.4 Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified DDNOS is a convenient diagnostic label used to mean that the disorder, while not matching any other disorder, involves dissociation. People with partial symptoms of the above disorders might be diagnosed as DDNOS. Because this is a purely diagnostic category, there is no way to actually define it; you might, however, see or hear people mention that this is how their therapist has diagnosed them. A common use of this category is when a person does not meet the diagnostic criteria of MPD, but exhibits most of the symptoms and history of someone with MPD. === 2.3 Related Disorders There are a great many disorders which have, at least in part, some similar symptoms to the dissociative disorders, or result in similar disfunctions. Primarily among these are personality disorders, as might not be surprising to those who look at the name "Multiple Personality Disorder". In particular, Borderline Personality Disorder would seem to result in the type of issues that many multiples experience, as would identity disorder. Some mood disorders might also result in similar functional problems. Schizophrenia is considered by some to be similar to MPD. PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) might be considered by some people to be a related disorder, as its causes are similar to that of MPD and other dissociative disorders (i.e., severe stress and/or trauma). Although perhaps not clinically similar, it would seem that autism and related disorders create similar types of disfunction to dissociative disorders. *** 2.3.1 Personality Disorders Borderline Personality Disorder is defined as instability in mood, self-image, and relationships, including indecision about serious issues of identity (one’s goals, sexual orientation, values/ethics/morals, self-image, and the like). Some of the symptoms include: * Instability in one’s personal relationships * Impulsiveness to the point of self-damage (substance abuse, impulsive sexual activity, etc.) * Instability of mood, such as short-term depression or anxiety/panic. * Inappropriate or uncontrolled anger * Recurrent attempts/threats of suicide or self-mutilation * Identity disturbance/marked uncertainty about: one’s self-image, sexual orientation, long-term goals, and the like * Chronic boredom or feelings of emptiness * Anxiety about and frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment Identity disorder, considered a disorder of childhoood and adolescence, is severe distress arising from the inability to create an integrated and cohesive (as well as acceptable) sense of self. Symptoms include severe stress regarding uncertainty over one’s long-term goals, career choice, friendship patterns, sexual orientation, religious identification, morals/values, group loyalties, and other important decisions, accompanied by impairment in one’s functioning due to this stress and uncertainty. ==== 2.4 Treating Dissociative Disorders Updated 3/15/96 ISSD has published a formal set of guidelines for treating dissociative disorders; it is now available on the Web at http://www.cic.net/~issd/treguide.html [The following is the information that was here in lieu of formal guidelines; these were summarized from a number of books addressing the treatment of dissociation.] Treatment has two goals: firstly, to allow the normal functioning of a highly dissociative person, and secondly, to treat the underlying cause of dissociation. These goals are generally interconnected and are dealt with simultaneously.

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Archive-name: dissoc-faq/part3 Last-modified: 1995/05/14 Posting-frequency: bi-monthly Section 3 Dissociation: An Informal Look From an Insider === 3.0 Overview This section deals with multiplicity from the standpoint of the multiple, as well as the authors personal take on what dissociation really is, and the issues that may surround the dissociative person. Some of this directly contradicts "formal" studies of dissociation, but since it was written from the viewpoint of a multiple, this is hardly surprising. === 3.1 An Essay on Dissociation You will find that many people have many different views on what consitutes dissociation, who does it, and whether or not the simple existence of dissociative processes in a person constitute a problem (or when they do). However, this is my own personal viewpoint, with some input from others that helped me shape this section. Consciously or not, temporarily or not, dissociation is a process in which you assume a role or roles that are markedly different from the one you might usually have. This includes a wide spectrum of things. An example of an every-day dissociative process would be, perhaps not surprisingly, actors. Actors often immerse themselves in their roles, and while they are on stage are actually the person they are portraying. An Example: Joe Smith, Actor. Joe Smith is portraying Hamlet on stage, and the play is in progress. During this time, he is no longer Joe Smith, the actor, but instead _becomes_ Hamlet. He is thinking what Hamlet would think, saying what Hamlet would say, using his speech patterns, his body language, his belief system, his views of the world. For a short period of time at he, they _is_ Hamlet. After the play is through, he becomes Joe Smith, actor, again. Possibly when he goes home, he becomes Joe Smith, private person who is little if anything like "Joe Smith, actor." While he is on stage/being Hamlet, he is using dissociation to keep Joe Smith’s thoughts, body language, etc. out of the way. He has become Hamlet to give a truer representation of Hamlet. Likewise, the simple act of daydreaming could be considered a form, albeit a very minor one, of dissociation. Most people probably dissociate to some degree or another hundreds of times during their life. And most of those would not be reading this newsgroup. So let us focus a bit more on the type of dissociative states I expect people reading this newsgroup would have. There are, as talked about elsewhere, multiples. Multiples are people who have dissociated fairly extremely (although there is, of course, a wide variance with multiples). There are people who dissociate just enough to be able to deal with wildly different situations in a smoother way. There are people who use dissociation as a tool, deliberately inducing in themselves a dissociative state (possibly to the point of multiplicity) so that they can perform in a way that their usual state of being might not allow. A good example of this might be people who are psychic or who perform acts of magick. [Note to skeptics: Feel free to be skeptical. Maybe they aren't actually performing feats of psionics or magick, but they _think_ they are, and this is the tool they use.] In any event, sometimes the dissociation can lead to problems. What happens if you create this dissociative process and it begins interfering with your usual state, or with other dissociative processes you created. What happens if this dissociation _becomes_ your "usual state"? What happens if you no longer _have_ a "usual state"? I’d say that means you have a problem. === 3.2 Problems and Issues Please bear in mind that I am not a psychologist or therapist, nor do I think that my suggestions are necessarily right for everyone. However, I have also never been to a therapist, and as a multiple myself, I cope with it just fine even without therapy. Remember that this is an informal look of things one can do to cope with the problems and issues arising from multiplicity and related conditions. If you are experiencing severe problems and dysfunction/impairment of day to day living, I _would_ urge you to seek out a therapist or psychologist that is sympathetic and understanding of these types of disorders. If you cannot find one easily, you could come to the Internet for suggestions, as a stopgap measure (although some have found healing solely from the Internet). I would like to stress to people that they should not automatically label dissociation (yes, that includes multiplicity) as a problem. For many people, it is not. Sometimes the dissociation opens up new issues or causes problems for a person, but sometimes it does not. Some issues that seem specific to multiples (but might in a way apply to other related conditions). * Alters with different religions, especially if one or more have even a small amount of religious intolerance. * Alters with different goals in life * Alters with different sexual orientation (including no interest) * Alters with large differences in likes or dislikes * Alters who, themselves, have a psychological problem * Course of healing: should it include integration/fusion? Some issues that might well apply to all dissociative disorders. * Recovering lost memories/lost time periods * Re-settling into life after an abrupt change (whether via fugue or the actions of an alter) * Deciding on a course of action regarding exploration of issues mentioned above (i.e., sexual orientation, uncertain goals, religion) === 3.3 The Multiplicity mini-FAQ [written by Discord and the Sapphire Gazelles] TERMS (definitions may vary somewhat) * alter/persona: one person/aspect of the multiple. * birth person: the alter that was present originally, before splitting (not everybody has one) * host: the body and/or the "main" alter (not everybody has one) * shell person: an "outside" alter that is run by "remote control" * MP: Multiple Personality/ies * multiple/multiple unit: referring to a single multiple system * multiple system: defined below * integration/co-consciousness: refers to a degree of cooperation between alters that includes the ability to coordinate actions between alters, as well as communication between them and the ability to share information. * fusion: merging all the alters into one Q: "What is/are MP/MPD/multiple personalities, multiplicity?" Multiple personalities [also known as multiplicity, MP (for Multiple Personalities) and MPD (for Multiple Personality Disorder, something most people who ARE multiple find insulting)] means basically what it says: someone who has multiple persons/personalities living inside of one body. These are referred to here as alters. (As of the DSM-IV, this condition is called Dissociative Identity Disorder, but most people here will probably not use the official term.) Multiples, and people who come to deal with them, are aware of these different alters as completely separate people, rather than different facets of the same person. For instance, someone who was utterly professional and cold at work but who was a rocking metal-head partier at home would not (necessarily) be multiple just because of the wide difference in the way they acted in different situations. [They might, however, be considered dissociative.] In fact, some multiple systems have within them alters who are very similar to one another, differing so slightly that sometimes the multiples themselves have difficulty telling them apart. The differentiating factors can vary greatly. One of the possible ways to tell them apart is names, but many multiples have several alters of the same name. Some might _all_ have the same name. The various alters can be of the same or different gender as the body, including being of no gender at all. They often have different likes, dislikes, tastes, etc. They often have different body language, speech patterns, and sometimes, voices. There are cases where eye color differs. Many have different abilities, physical and mental. They may be of widely varying ages. Sometimes they will self-identify as having separate racial/cultural backgrounds or native languages. Often they have different religions. Some studies have shown that different alters have different brain wave patterns (EEG readings), although this is a topic under dispute. There can be as much variance within a multiple system as there would be in your average room full of people. Q: "How does this differ from different moods in a singular person?" Example: A singular person may be, at heart, a quiet, introverted person. If sie is suddenly very chatty, there will be a reason for this, such as extreme comfort with those around, or nervousness. Or sie may be a chatty, extroverted person, and if sie is quiet then sie feels ill or uncomfortable. A multiple, however, may have alters who are extroverted and alters who are painfully shy, or even mute or autistic. The differences you see may be/often are due to different alters, not moods. A person who has varying states of being for various situations might well be dissociated to some extent, but not be multiple. There isn’t really a clear dividing line between simple changes of mood, dissociation, and multiplicity. Everyone dissociates to some degree; one interesting theory is that in a way, everyone is multiple. Q: "What precisely do people mean by ‘the birth person’?" The birth person is the alter that was present from the beginning, the one born into the body, who was present before the multiple system was created. Some multiples believe they were born multiple. In any event, the birth person may be the host (although certainly not always) and/or the main alter (again, certainly not always) and therefore often goes by the name of the body, at least officially. The birth person may be still at the age where the original split occurred, having missed all the time in the … read more »

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Archive-name: dissoc-faq/part4 Last-modified: 1996/03/15 Posting-frequency: bi-monthly Section 4 Abuse and other Trauma === 4.0 Overview In discussing dissociation, it is important to note that most dissociation is a result of trauma or stress. (The exceptions are usually those people who deliberately/consciously dissociate for reasons other than stress or trauma.) Because of this, I wanted to include a brief section on abuse, stress, and trauma. === 4.1 Abuse Abuse comes in all sorts of different types, results in different effects, and is both perpetrated by an experienced by people from every age group, racial/ethnic group, religious group, country, gender, and sexual orientation. Abuse may be more common in some of these groups, as well as more commonly perpetrated by people from some groups, but anyone can abuse, and anyone can be abused. A simplistic definition of abuse would be any action that is done to someone without their full, informed consent. I call this simplistic in part because it fails to define what constitutes consent. Generally speaking, abuse is harmful. There are some actions that some people may consider abusive, that subjectively may not seem harmful (to either the perpetrator or the victim of the abuse). It is thought that nearly 1/4 of all people in the U.S. have been (or will be at some time in their life) abused in some way. Since abuse is often hidden both by the perpetrator and the victim, there is not currently a realistic way to measure just how much abuse occurs, the usual length of the such abuse, the gender of abused and abuser, and so forth; many studies have been done on the issue and they have turned up many conflicting answers. *** 4.1.2 Different Types of Abuse Abuse may be physical, emotional/verbal, sexual, ritualistic in nature, religious, financial, or some combination of these. Physical abuse is straight physical harm: beatings, whippings, punching, hitting, kicking, scratching, slapping, and the like. (Non-consensual, of course; the author wants to differentiate this from consensual whipping, scratching, biting, and so forth.) Sexual abuse is sexual actions done without one’s partner’s consent. This ranges from feeling someone up without their consent to sexual intercourse. Sexual abuse is often combined with physical abuse, as in violent rape. Some people believe that all sexual contact with children is automatically sexual abuse. The definition of "child" in this case varies, but it would seem most people agree that any pre-pubescent individual is a child. Some people believe that discussing sex in an inappropriate way, particularly with a child, is sexual abuse; I might be more inclined to call it emotional abuse, but it can in fact be abuse. Sexual contact between two relatives is incest and is a form of sexual abuse in some cases, such as a parent and its child. Emotional/verbal abuse is somewhat harder to define, but a simplistic definition would include name-calling, put-downs, and the like. Consistently telling someone that they are worthless is emotional abuse, for example. Telling someone they are not worthy of love is emotional abuse. Withholding of affection is also emotional abuse. Manipulation of someone so that they do precisely what the manipulator wants is emotional abuse. ("If you loved me, you’d do x." "If you don’t do this, you are worthless.") Ritualistic abuse, usually for religious reasons, is said by many not to exist; however, the author fully believes that it does. Ritualistic abuse is physical, sexual, or emotional abuse used in the context of a religious rite, such as raping someone as part of the rite. Religious abuse is not just ritualistic abuse, but also such things as using religious tenets to excuse physical, sexual, or emotional abuse. Excusing one’s physical abuse because the abuse victim is "evil", for instance, would in this author’s opinion be religious abuse as well as physical abuse. Financial abuse is controlling, through whatever means, someone’s financial resources, including money for food, clothing, shelter, luxuries, and the like. It is often accompanied by some other form of abuse; for instance, forcing someone to sign their check over to the perpetrator by beating that person. *** 4.1.3 Effects of abuse Abuse can leave both physical and mental scars on the victim. Some physical effects include visible scars and mutilation, the inability to bear or father children (or danger in bearing children), limps, and even such extremes as missing limbs, blindness, or paralyzation. The most extreme physical effect of abuse is death, and that does happen. The mental effects are endless. Most common are a low self-esteem and depression, sometimes short-lived, other times pervasive and long-lasting. Survivors of long-term abuse also frequently experience anxiety/panic attacks, memory loss, flashbacks of the abuse; the inability to form permanent, healthy relationships; impaired sexual functioning; extreme fear and (self-imposed) social isolation. Dissociation is also a common effect of abuse, whether this be mild or extreme. Other neuroses and psychoses also have their root in abuse. Childhood abuse, even when not particularly extreme, is often subjectively much worse than abuse experienced as an adult. Freqently, abused children live much of their adult life disfunctional, due to the depth of depression, extreme low self-esteem, and sometimes the extremity of dissociation so common to abused children. These children often grow up to have little or no sense of self-worth, and frequently turn to self-mutilation, self-destructive behaviors such as addiction or the (often subconscious) seeking out of abusive partners, excessive unhealthy sexual behavior, and sometimes suicide. === 4.2 Trauma Other types of trauma can lead to psychological problems; there is a well-defined link between dissociation and trauma. Traumatic events are purely subjective; what one person might be able to deal with will send another into hysterics. However, some common forms of trauma include: * Death of a lover/spouse, close friend, or family member. * War, either as a soldier or a civilian. * Destruction of one’s home and possessions. * Witnessing a violent crime, especially one perpetrated on someone close to you. * Being the victim of a violent crime. Like abuse, trauma can result in severe depression, extreme dissociation, amnesia, flashbacks, anxiety/panic attacks, and the like. Depending on the type of trauma (abuse being a specific subset of trauma, for instance), other psychological disorders may develop. Addiction to a drug (including alcohol) is fairly prevalent in people who have suffered a traumatic event. PTSD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, is a long-lasting and severe effect of traumatic events. *** 4.3.2 Stress While most people can deal with a fairly large amount of stress without lasting psychological problems, it is possible for extreme and/or long- lasting stress to produce problems similar to those experienced by people who have suffered from trauma. I mention stress here only because it is known that extreme and/or long- lasting stress can lead to dissociation in some degree; in fact, even a small amount of stress can lead to mild, short-lived dissociation. Section 5 Resources === 5.0 Overview The following are various resources on dissociation, abuse, and other topics covered by this FAQ. === 5.1 The Internet The Internet offers a fairly large number of support groups on various topics, including abuse, depression, and other things that might be of interest to readers of alt.support.dissociation. There are also some places to go for information about these subjects. *** 5.1.1 Newsgroups There are a number of newsgroups that are, in some way, related to this one; the abuse support groups, due to the large number of dissociative people who have suffered abuse; the other support groups due to the people who have other difficulties besides their dissociation. * alt.sexual.abuse.recovery, commonly known as ASAR, is primarily for survivors of sexual abuse. Survivors of other forms of abuse have been welcomed there, and discussion of non-sexual abuse is often found, although many of the people there have suffered more than one typ eof abuse. The group also has SO’s of people who have been abused, and even a few people who have not been abused at all, but have some other interest in reading the group. PLEASE read the FAQ before posting to ASAR, at least the section on posting etiquette. * alt.abuse.recovery is for survivors of all forms of abuse, as well as other people with abuse-related concerns. To my knowledge there is not currently a FAQ. * alt.abuse.transcendence is for survivors of all forms of abuse, but is modeled differently than ASAR and aar. The newsgroup is very blunt and discusses non-traditional approaches to dealing with the effects of abuse. Newcomers should be warned that a.a.t. does NOT use any spoilers of any kind. There is a FAQ in progress for the group. * alt.support.abuse-partners is a group for SOs of abuse survivors, who have a unique set of issues of their own. * alt.support.depression * alt.support.anxiety-panic I include these because of the large number of multiples (and abuse survivors) who experience these difficulties. * alt.support.personality is a new group, currently of rather low traffic, for people with personality disorders. It would seem that BPD (borderline personality disorder) is a common topic there. People who do not have personality disorders but who are dissociative may still find the group to be of use to them. Other groups in the alt.support.* hierarchy may be of use to readers of this group; a complete list is maintained by Jonathon Grohol and is posted every 2 weeks to the support groups, including this one.

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