Anxiety and Panic Information

SSRIs assoc with improvement by end of first week

admin — Sun, 30 Sep 2007 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2006 Nov;63(11):1217-23. Early onset of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor antidepressant action: systematic review and meta-analysis. Taylor MJ, Freemantle N, Geddes JR, Bhagwagar Z. Department of Psychiatry, University of Oxford, Warneford Hospital, Oxford, England. CONTEXT: Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are *often described as having a delayed onset of effect in the treatment of depression*. However, some trials have reported clinical improvement as early as the first week of treatment. OBJECTIVE: To test the alternative hypotheses of delayed vs early onset of antidepressant action with SSRIs in patients with unipolar depression. DATA SOURCES: Trials identified by searching CENTRAL, The Cochrane Collaboration database of controlled trials (2005), and the reference lists of identified trials and other systematic reviews. STUDY SELECTION: Randomized controlled trials of SSRIs vs placebo for the treatment of unipolar depression in adults that reported outcomes for at least 2 time points in the first 4 weeks of treatment (50 trials from 500 citations identified). Trials were excluded if limited to participants older than 65 years or specific comorbidities. DATA EXTRACTION: Data were extracted on trial design, participant characteristics, and outcomes by a single reviewer. DATA SYNTHESIS: Pooled estimates of treatment effect on depressive symptom rating scales were calculated for weeks 1 through 6 of treatment. In the primary analysis, the pattern of response seen was tested against alternative models of onset of response. The primary analysis incorporated data from 28 randomized controlled trials (n=5872). A model of early treatment response best fit the experimental data. *Treatment with SSRIs rather than placebo was associated with clinical improvement by the end of the first week of use*. A secondary analysis indicated an increased chance of achieving a 50% reduction in Hamilton Depression Rating Scale scores by 1 week (relative risk, 1.64; 95% confidence interval, 1.2-2.25) with SSRI treatment compared with placebo. CONCLUSIONS: Treatment with SSRIs is associated with symptomatic improvement in depression by the end of the first week of use, and the improvement continues at a decreasing rate for at least 6 weeks. PMID: 17088502 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

CONCLUSIONS: Treatment with SSRIs is associated with symptomatic improvement in depression by the end of the first week of use, and the improvement continues at a decreasing rate for at least 6 weeks. PMID: 17088502 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

With me, it depended on the SSRI. Some had an immediate effect, others took up to 4 weeks before I felt any improvement. All of them, without exception, had the same end result – I had to keep increasing my dose to the point where the side effects were worse than the depression symptoms. After trying over a dozen different Anti-Depressants (Paxil, Zoloft, Prozac, Trazadone, Ritalin, Effexor, Serzone, Prozac & Wellbutrin, Celexa, Lexapro, & Remeron) with varying degrees of success (or lack of) and a whole laundry-list of side effects, I’m done with them. This last stretch of treatment (for Anxiety/Panic, not depression) has made me realize that, at least for me, Anti-Depressants don’t work. The only thing that’s really helped me in all of this, med wise, is the Klonopin I’ve been taking for 9 months. Started with 3x a day, along with 30 mg of Remeron at night. Panic attacks went away after about a week. About 4 months later, increased the Remeron to 45mg, and started tapering off the Klonopin, eventually down to 1/2 a tab a day. Big Mistake! Had the mother of all panic attacks. Went back to the doctor, he told me to go back to 3x a day, and set me up for therapy. Started seeing a therapist (with questionable results), and weaning off the Klonopin again. Also almost completely off the Remeron (22.5 mg, twice a week). Was only taking the Klonopin once a day – right before I left for my drive home from work (where the majority of my panic attacks took place). Two Mondays ago, had another bad one on the way home from work. The next morning, went back to 3x a day. Tomorrow will be almost 3 weeks without a panic attack (and believe me, with all that went on this past week, if I was gonna have one, it would have been this week). Looks like for me, ADs are worthless and Klonopin, .5mg 3x a day, is the way to go. OTOH, I’ve met people who claim that Prozac (or Lexapro, or whatever they may be taking) literally "changed their life." Whatever works, stick with it. Wishing everyone a happy and anxiety-free week. Joe — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Two Mondays ago, had another bad one on the way home from work. The next morning, went back to 3x a day. Tomorrow will be almost 3 weeks without a panic attack (and believe me, with all that went on this past week, if I was gonna have one, it would have been this week). Looks like for me, ADs are worthless and Klonopin, .5mg 3x a day, is the way to go.

Joe, I’ve been on Klonopin for 20 years. Currently 1 mg in AM and 2 mg in PM. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Need help disputing the irrational thoughts:

admin — Wed, 12 Sep 2007 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I need help disputing the following irrational thoughts: Thoughts rated on 1-10 scale What if I get a panic attack? 10 What if I fall? 10 What if I get those horrible feelings? 9 What if I make a fool of myself in front of people? 10 What if I faint? 9 What if I freak out? 9 What if I lose control? 10 Oh my God! Here comes another panic attack. 10 When will I get cured? 10 People will find out my weakness. 7 People will laugh at me. 10 I am hopeless. 7 Thanks, Sunil Mumbai, India

I’ve experienced all of these. A rating would depend on what situation I was facing. I’m not sure what you mean about "disputing" these thoughts. -frizz — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Thank you all for your most outstanding support and excellent ideas! Sunil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Sunil, What if I get a panic attack? 10 ***They pass. We have learned tools to help us get through them. We haven’t died yet… What if I fall? 10 ***More than likely you won’t but as Margrove said, get back up. What if I get those horrible feelings? 9 ***Deep breathe and retreat to a safe place momentraily. They will pass. What if I make a fool of myself in front of people? 10 ***Have you yet? If you "feel" you are making a fool out of yourself then distract yourself as well as the others. You could start to cough and then simply say, "Excuse me" and then go on with the conversation. What if I faint? 9 ***Have you yet? 90% Of what we worry about doesn’t happen. What if I freak out? 9 ***See "What if I faint" What if I lose control? 10 ***Aah, my biggest concern also. Retreat until you feel more normal. If you are in a meeting simply say, "Excuse me one minute" and then use the restroom. Splash some water on your wrists and/or face, deep breathe and re-enter the meeting with a smile on your face. Oh my God! Here comes another panic attack. 10 ***Expect it to occur, accept it, and deep breathe through it. When will I get cured? 10 ***To my awareness there is no cure. We do the best we can by learning to use the tools, therapy and meds. People will find out my weakness. 7 ***Aah, yet another concern of mine. I decide who I tell. I feel you are shameful of your anxiety??? I used to be. Nowadays I have learned to accept my condition. So many people I have told of my condition know people who also deal with panic attacks. It’s not like we have some contagious disaese. I used to lie my way through situations and I was good at that. I found being more open with most people is easier and then I have no need to turn one lie into another. My main issue being the limited driving. People will laugh at me. 10 ***More than likely they know someone who also has anxiety issues, if they themselves don’t. You woyld be surprised how many people do deal with at least general anxiety. Most people tend to be concerned and sympathetic. I am hopeless. 7 ***Felt that way in the beginning for me. Putting the shame aside, dealing with anxiety when it comes and being more open has made me feel better about myself. Sunil, I read a book called "Letting Go Of Shame: Understanding How Shame Affects Your Life". It was very easy to read and very insightful for me. It might be good for you to read this book and think about how shame is affecting your life, as well as anxiety. ((((((Sunil)))))) smiles, Rita Thanks, Sunil

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Sunil, What if I get a panic attack? 10

***They pass. We have learned tools to help us get through them. We haven’t died yet… What if I fall? 10

***More than likely you won’t but as Margrove said, get back up. What if I get those horrible feelings? 9

***Deep breathe and retreat to a safe place momentraily. They will pass. What if I make a fool of myself in front of people? 10

***Have you yet? If you "feel" you are making a fool out of yourself then distract yourself as well as the others. You could start to cough and then simply say, "Excuse me" and then go on with the conversation. What if I faint? 9

***Have you yet? 90% Of what we worry about doesn’t happen. What if I freak out? 9

***See "What if I faint" What if I lose control? 10

***Aah, my biggest concern also. Retreat until you feel more normal. If you are in a meeting simply say, "Excuse me one minute" and then use the restroom. Splash some water on your wrists and/or face, deep breathe and re-enter the meeting with a smile on your face. Oh my God! Here comes another panic attack. 10

***Expect it to occur, accept it, and deep breathe through it. When will I get cured? 10

***To my awareness there is no cure. We do the best we can by learning to use the tools, therapy and meds. People will find out my weakness. 7

***Aah, yet another concern of mine. I decide who I tell. I feel you are shameful of your anxiety??? I used to be. Nowadays I have learned to accept my condition. So many people I have told of my condition know people who also deal with panic attacks. It’s not like we have some contagious disaese. I used to lie my way through situations and I was good at that. I found being more open with most people is easier and then I have no need to turn one lie into another. My main issue being the limited driving. People will laugh at me. 10 ***More than likely they know someone who also has anxiety issues, if they themselves don’t. You woyld be surprised how many people do deal with at least general anxiety. Most people tend to be concerned and sympathetic. I am hopeless. 7 ***Felt that way in the beginning for me. Putting the shame aside, dealing with anxiety when it comes and being more open has made me feel better about myself. Sunil, I read a book called "Letting Go Of Shame: Understanding How Shame Affects Your Life". It was very easy to read and very insightful for me. It might be good for you to read this book and think about how shame is affecting your life, as well as anxiety. ((((((Sunil)))))) smiles, Rita Thanks, Sunil Mumbai, India — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I do believe in a Higher Power though my faith is shaky these days I think for each of us that suffer from all these various mental thoughts the answer may be different. I personally am going back to religion which at one time I had rejected.( Reason being–I felt there were too many differing ideas, religions, etc.) I was raised Christian and am finding once again that prayer can help. I’m not trying to convert anyone to any religion; but getting the mind in touch with God or your higher power may provide some relief. All of us feel alone in our great suffering and medicines provide some relief, but God has answers before man does.

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I don’t think these thoughts need disputing. You have already done so when you label them irrational. But, I think underlying these are other irrational thoughts. Like I shouldn’t be thinking these thoughts. If I have these thoughts, this means I am crazy. I don’t know if this fits in with CBT but at this point, I am just trying to be aware of the thoughts/feelings. They are there. They are not true but they keep coming. So what? I have other things to do with my life. I think that is basically what we do anyway to be able to continue. So we just need to get better at it. Bob — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hello all, I need help disputing the following irrational thoughts: Thoughts rated on 1-10 scale

for what it’s worth What if I get a panic attack? 10

the irrational belief here is you cannot stand a panic attack and that having one would be awful catasptrophic beyond anything humanly posible to withstand-in fact you have withstood them, they have yet to kill you even though you wished they would and beyond that if you do have one so what? You may seem less then perfect, become ashamed, feel worthless for having such a malady etc.. see further What if I fall? 10

then you either stay down or get up-what would be the worse case scenario-others may judge you for falling? People fall, lose their balance, become ill, slip, etc.. you get up. What if I get those horrible feelings? 9

you define the sensations you have as either neutral, negative or positive-it would be ludicrous to believe you can channel a negative feeling into a positive one, but it is very possible to, with practice, see that the feeling in question is really more neutral then you currently see it as…-if I get those feelings it would be inconvenient and annoying but I will handle it the best way I can and survive it in spite of getting them-if you change the terms of how you describe, define and empower the things that make you miserable, they no longer will-you will endure a discomfort rather then fall powerless to it What if I make a fool of myself in front of people? 10

what does a fool look like? How can anyone act foolish unless others have a standard acceptable behavior to set as an example-those examples are precarious, arbitrary and non rational-one may look like a fool to some and a genius to others-you are convincing yourself that you Must be perfect at all times and be liked or loved by others at all times and if you aren’t, you are somehow worth less as a person and cannot stand others approval and your own imperfections-in fact it would be impossible to act foolish-unless you define it so and your assesment is most likely subjective and erroneous-you can survive what others think of you and will make yourself miserable if you judge yourself by some inhuman Godlike standard you or anyone could hardly acheive What if I faint? 9

same as you fall-you wake up and get up What if I freak out? 9

freak out was a weirdo dance in the late 70’s-again-you cannot truly freak out-you can act out, you can act innervated and anxious or hysterical and out of control-but this is hardly anything more or less then anyone else has ever acted or experienced-you don’t have to allow yourself to lose control, since it is you that controls you anyway-but if you did-again-so what? You regain control, brush yourself off and exclaim "pardon me" to others and go about living What if I lose control? 10

you don’t really have control anyway-it is a vacuous concept of little value-you do have say over how you act and behave and this is a conscious active process that you have control over-so expos factos-you control how you act not totally control the universe -you can challenge what you feel and believe about the universe or how you perceive it-There are times when it is nice to be uninhibited and other times we chose to inhibit ourselves, for various reasons-you can chose to inhibit making yourself miserably hysterical and over reactive to a panic attack-you can endure it and transcend it and maybe, they will lessen in frequency and duration and have less power over you-or maybe not-if you take a less then perfection based perspective on what you should feel rather then what you do feel, you won’t fear many of the things you needlessly fear-no one likes to feel panic it hurts-but demanding it never grace your life and if it does it is awful only buys you more grief-go into a crowded area and act like a baffoon and see you will survive and it is actually fun to act ridiculous-then you may fear being ashamed less. Oh my God! Here comes another panic attack. 10

same as above-change the awfulizing to here comes another panic attack-now what? If I ride this like a wave it will crest and break and the waters of my emotions will calm and become stable-if I awfulize it and believe it will harm me, make me embarassed, harm others, cause great disruption etc etc.. you will fear it and make yourself anxious about being anxious-it is the secondary anxiety that is the most painful-the primary panic is a surge of adrenal secretions and some wacky brain chemicals that make you feel stoned and dumb-your body regulates it and it goes back to normal stasis in time-if the time takes too long meds are helpful, or you just live with it like any other illness’s symptom. When will I get cured? 10

there is no cure for anxiety as there is no cure for life-you live it and in spite of anxiety, enjoy it People will find out my weakness. 7

so what everyone has weakness and strength People will laugh at me. 10

so what-better they laugh then throw stones at you I am hopeless. 7

no you feel hopeless because you allow yourself to believe all kinds of erroneous negative crap-you are YOU-you are many things and feel many things-hope is something that takes courage and resolve to feel-it is better to strive for neutrality and have hope that many things may happen but if they don’t no big deal. I hope I live to be 100 in good health-if not-so what-shit happens your nervous system is hyperactive and you react to its reactions with defining terms that are not true or logical conclusions of what is happening-you jump to conclusions, you react with "I can’t stand this, it is awful, I am awful, you are hateful, I am hateful, things are bad, things will never get better, I am worthless, I am different, I am a freak and unlovable, I cannot do anything right, or I do everything right until you fail and then I do nothing right-you focus on the negative and justify it, ratify it and discount the positive, you create an ongoing dialogue of judgement of yourself-if you wish to be rational, it takes practice-you break down your irrational belief and challenge it with rational beliefs what if I fall–I get up what if what if-what if a comet hits earth and we all die- we wouldn’t know it! make a journal a-is the trigger "falling down" b= your belief about it your irrational belief oh my god I will make a fool of myself c= the consequence what you will feel I will feel awful d= is the dispute how is falling awful and foolish and how can anyone in their right mind judge someone for falling -even if it is a slapstick comedy it is funny not pitiable e-is the rational emotional consequence-you don’t want to fall down, you could get hurt -but if you did-so what you have been reading burns and ellis many times for years-apply it there are excercises in those books-they aren’t there to take up space-this takes time and practice and repetition and help from a pro and maybe some meds-there is no easy way out of this-it takes work and you need to commit to it Thanks, Sunil Mumbai, India

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hello all, I need help disputing the following irrational thoughts: Thoughts rated on 1-10 scale What if I get a panic attack? 10 What if I fall? 10 What if I get those horrible feelings? 9 What if I make a fool of myself in front of people? 10 What if I faint? 9 What if I freak out? 9 What if I lose control? 10 Oh my God! Here comes another panic attack. 10 When will I get cured? 10 People will find out my weakness. 7 People will laugh at me. 10 I am hopeless. 7 Thanks, Sunil Mumbai, India — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I think for each of us that suffer from all these various mental thoughts the answer may be different. I personally am going back to religion which at one time I had rejected.( Reason being–I felt there were too many differing ideas, religions, etc.) I was raised Christian and am finding once again that prayer can help. I’m not trying to convert anyone to any religion; but getting the mind in touch with God or your higher power may provide some relief. All of us feel alone in our great suffering and medicines provide some relief, but God has answers before man does. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Resources for self-help groups world wide <09/11/07>

admin — Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

This is work in progress! If you know of any support groups where you live, let me know and I`ll gladly add it to the list! Thanks!! Australian Self help anxiety support groups http://www.anxietynetwork.com.au/ http://www.anxietyaustralia.com.au/support_groups/victoria.shtml BRISBANE OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE DISORDER SUPPORT GROUP New Farm Neighbourhood Centre 967 Brunswick Street New Farm, Queensland, Australia 4005 Contact: Patricia Minnaar Phone: 07 3376 4383 SOUTHSIDE ANXIETY DISORDERS GROUP (S.A.D. Group) Contact: Kevin Robins Phone: 0407 574 739, or at home: 07 3807 0228 Meets twice monthly on Brisbane’s south side for the support and education of anxiety disorders, required by sufferers and their support persons. OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE & ANXIETY DISORDERS FOUNDATION OF VICTORIA (Statewide organization) 16 Support Groups that meet once a month in various locations around Victoria. President: Edwin Belfield Director: Kathryn Ianson Phone: (03) 9576 2477 ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION SUPPORT GROUPS AUSTRALIA Covers all major cities of Australia: Adelaide Brisbane Canberra Darwin Hobart Melbourne Perth Sydney Find us online at www.anxdepaust.com Contact: Andrew Jones Australian Self help social anxiety support groups http://www.socialanxietyaustralia.com.au/ Canada CENTRAL ALBERTA ANXIETY (PHOBIA) SUPPORT GROUP Meeting Location: Didsbury Public Library Meetings every Thursday from 6:30 to 8:30 p.m. www.anxietytreatments.net DURHAM REGION COMMUNITY CARE ASSOCIATION Oshawa/Whitby COPE Mental Health Program 45 Bloor Street East, Unite 1 Oshawa, ON L1H 3L9 Canada Contact: Sharon Wyeth, Pro. Manager Phone: (905) 434-1693 SELF-HELP RESOURCE CENTRE OF GREATER TORONTO (Ontario Self-Help Network) 40 Orchard View Blvd., Suite 219 Toronto, Ontario M4R-1B9 Canada Phone: (416) 487-4355 Fax: (416) 487-0344 (a) Anxiety Disorders/ Free From Fear Foundation. Contact: Deborah Phone: (905) 831-3877 (b) Obsessive Compulsive Disorder Support Group Contact: Dan Phone: (416) 920-5887 (c) Recovery, Inc. Contact: Roseanne Phone: (905) 812-7935 or (416) 494-6412 (d) Emotions Anonymous Contact: John Phone: (416) 281-9364 OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE DISORDER Obsessive Compulsive Information and Support Centre, Inc. R. 204 – 825 Sherbrook Street Winnipeg, MB R3A 1M5 Canada Phone: (204) 772-6979 Fax: (204) 786-0860 SOCIAL PHOBIA SUPPORT GROUP CAMH 250 College Street 11th Floor, Room 1118 Toronto, Canada M5T 1N6 Contact: Earla Dunbar Phone: (416) 747-4819 Web site: http://www.socialphobia.ca/ Meets every Friday from 3:00-4:30pm SELF-HELP SUPPORT GROUP LIST Windsor, Ontario: YMCA, 500 Victoria Street Entrance Contact: Ken Phone: (519) 258-9622 ext. 242 or Contact: Terry Phone: (586) 790-8867 BARRIE ANXIETY DISORDER AND & SELF HELP GROUP 39 High St. Barrie, ON Contact: Tina Ervine Phone (705) 726-5033 ext. 240 Meets 3rd Wednesday of each month 5:00pm to 7:30pm TORONTO

Lexapro- real info please?

admin — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 00:00:00 +0000

Lexapro is a medication used to treat depression and anxiety disorders. buy Lexapro and feel better today!

Question:

Hi Folks, I hate to make these groups seem like they’re about drugs more than support, but I guess it’s part of the territory. The Ol GP said this was the hot lick in anxiety and to some extent depression treatment, so I’m taking a test drive. I know I’m looking at about 3 weeks before any knot-in-the gut loosening can be expected, may be a touch longer even, but will it work eventually? I was warned about side effects, but they don’t sound much worse than not being medicated for this anxiety. 10mg to start with and away we go. Day 2 now and just as expected nothing, So far so good. But does it help eventually, and if not what’s the taper like to save $40 a month? It didn’t seem to be a just “stop” medication, but neither was Paxil and that’s how it went without issue. The valium was getting old and weak, the Xanax, well 3 mgs seemed to work, but I feel the tension in that issue with my decent doc. The Xanax CR or ER or whatever, was a bigger dud than tic-tacs for anxiety. I also tired an oldie I was on once upon a time, Klonopin, but found little or no comfort there. Effexor I found dangerous as well as ineffective. I’m just wondering if I missed anything. I know issues run deeper than medications can reach, but they’re accumulating for outside issues faster than therapy could keep up with. One of these days when I have a chance to breathe and to grieve, but that’s not coming anytime soon, so it’s just hold it together with the best medical intentions being offered at the moment, being medication bandaids and knowing someday the piling on will end… (not a suicidal reference, just many personal issues hitting at once.) Thanks–og — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

You’ll have to take it for a few weeks in order to find out if it works for you. I was warned about side effects, but they don’t sound much worse than not being medicated for this anxiety. 10mg to start with and away we go.

Usually people with anxiety start on a lower dose, like 2.5 or 5.0 mg/day. And then increase the dose slowly as tolerated. Day 2 now and just as expected nothing, So far so good. But does it help eventually, and if not what’s the taper like to save $40 a month? It didn’t seem to be a just “stop” medication, but neither was Paxil and that’s how it went without issue. The valium was getting old and weak, the Xanax, well 3 mgs seemed to work, but I feel the tension in that issue with my decent doc.

Alot of doctors have an irrational fear of prescribing benzodiazepines to people with anxiety disorders. They’re afraid they’ll become “addicted”. Which implies craving of a substance and obsessional thinking about the substance. The Xanax CR or ER or whatever, was a bigger dud than tic-tacs for anxiety. I also tired an oldie I was on once upon a time, Klonopin, but found little or no comfort there.

I’ve been on Klonopin for 20 years and it helps me alot. Prevents panic attacks. Effexor I found dangerous as well as ineffective. I’m just wondering if I missed anything. I know issues run deeper than medications can reach,

Sometimes one needs medication before they can deal with the issues. Good luck with the Lexapro. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hey OG, welcome to ASAPM. Talking about meds is part of the deal IMO: many of us need them and some of us are scared by them. I know I’m looking at about 3 weeks before any knot-in-the gut loosening can be expected, may be a touch longer even, but will it work eventually? I was warned about side effects, but they don’t sound much worse than not being medicated for this anxiety. 10mg to start with and away we go. Day 2 now and just as expected nothing, So far so good. But does it help eventually, and if not what’s the taper like to save $40 a month? It didn’t seem to be a just “stop” medication, but neither was Paxil and that’s how it went without issue.

It can take between 3 and 8 weeks for some meds for some people, and per person the result will be different. You may find your starting dose too high, if your anxiety gets too much you could probably try a lower starting dose. The valium was getting old and weak, the Xanax, well 3 mgs seemed to work, but I feel the tension in that issue with my decent doc. The Xanax CR or ER or whatever, was a bigger dud than tic-tacs for anxiety. I also tired an oldie I was on once upon a time, Klonopin, but found little or no comfort there. Effexor I found dangerous as well as ineffective. I’m just wondering if I missed anything.

*For me* Xanax XR at 2x 1mg per day is the right med at the moment, I may reduce my dosage over time. What dose Xanax XR and Klonopin were you prescribed? Maybe the doses were too low. I get pissed off about docs being benzo-phobic… those docs need CBT or something to get over their irrational beliefs. I know issues run deeper than medications can reach, but they’re accumulating for outside issues faster than therapy could keep up with. One of these days when I have a chance to breathe and to grieve, but that’s not coming anytime soon, so it’s just hold it together with the best medical intentions being offered at the moment, being medication bandaids and knowing someday the piling on will end… (not a suicidal reference, just many personal issues hitting at once.)

OG, the meds can help us get to a point where we can work on our issues and sometimes we need them for longer than that. I accept that I need meds now, suffering doesn’t help anyone. Hope the lexapro works for you, good luck! — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Could Your Panic Be Anger? (article) <06/15/07>

admin — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Could Your Panic Be Anger? From Cathleen Henning,

Your Guide to Panic / Anxiety Disorders. An introduction to anger attacks….. You feel trapped. Your heart begins to race, and your hands begin to sweat and tremble. As your chest begins to hurt, you realize that you cannot take deep breaths. You’ve been arguing with your spouse and as your words grow louder, you become afraid of losing control. You can’t even remember how this started, but now you feel so overwhelmed that you want to throw something against the wall. You’ve just experienced a panic attack, right? Maybe not . . . What Is an Anger Attack? Maurizio Fava, MD, and Jerrold F. Rosenbaum, MD, are leading the way in the research of anger attacks and their treatment. Their studies have included research on anger attacks in both depressed and anxious subjects. According to Fava and Rosenbaum, anger attacks may be defined as follows: Anger attacks are sudden intense spells of anger that resemble panic attacks but lack the predominant affects of fear and anxiety associated with panic attacks. They typically occur in situations in which an individual feels emotionally trapped and experiences outbursts of anger that are later described by the patient as being uncharacteristic and inappropriate to the situation at hand. (Fava & Rosenbaum) Anger Attacks vs. Panic Attacks If anger attacks and panic attacks are so similar, how do we tell the difference? The feeling of being trapped may trigger both kinds of attacks. Both attacks begin suddenly and feel intense. Fava and Rosenbaum point out that fear and anxiety are not predominant symptoms in anger attacks as they are in panic attacks. The problem is that sudden intense emotions often feel similar to one another. How do we know which emotion is "predominant"? To understand these two kinds of attacks further, it may help to see the symptoms of each type of attack: Anger Attacks (from Fava & Rosenbaum) Irritable feelings in past 6 months Angry overreaction to small irritations 1 or more anger attacks experienced in past month Inappropriate anger directed towards others The occurrence of at least 4 of the following — heart pounding, racing chest pains sweating shaking, trembling shortness of breath dizziness, lightheadedness tingling, itching skin fear of losing control intense fear, anxiety cold or hot flashes feeling like attacking others attacking others (physically, verbally) throwing, destroying objects Panic Attacks During a panic attack, some or all of the following symptoms occur: Noticeably quick or pounding heartrate Pain or other discomfort in the chest Sweating Shaking Difficulty breathing, shortness of breath Dizziness Tingling sensations Fear of going crazy or losing control Fear of dying Derealization or depersonalization Choking sensation Nausea Cold or hot flashes As can be seen, anger attacks contain the same symptoms as panic attacks; however, to be an anger attack, the experience must contain additional symptoms. By exploring feelings such as ongoing irritability and behaviors such as directing anger towards others or throwing objects, one may gain a better understanding of the differences between the two kinds of attacks. http://panicdisorder.about.com/cs/pdbeyond/a/angerattacks.htm Anger Attacks and Psychiatric Disorders During their years of anger attack research, Fava and Rosenbaum have conducted a number of studies on the prevalence of anger attacks in different depressive and anxiety disorders. The main conclusion of these ongoing studies is that 30 to 40 percent of depressed people experience anger attacks. Research participants without depressive or anxiety disorders did not experience anger attacks at all. In a study by RA Gould, et al, slightly over 30 percent of subjects with panic disorder experienced anger attacks. The same prevalence was found in other anxiety disorders. The Gould study also found that anxious participants who experienced anger attacks were also more likely to be more depressed than anxious participants who did not experience anger attacks. It may be concluded, then, that if you experience anger attacks you are at greater risk of depression than people who do not experience anger attacks. If you have an anxiety disorder, depression may complicate your recovery. It is worthwhile to discuss your panic symptoms and/or anger experiences with your treatment provider. The Good News Anger attacks are treatable. Fava and Rosenbaum have focused on pharmacological treatments for anger attacks. Luckily, these treatments, in the form of antidepressant medications, are also often used to treat depressive and/or anxiety disorders. If you feel you have experienced anger attacks, your current treatment may already be helping, or you may want to discuss the Fava/Rosenbaum research with your treatment provider. If you are in therapy, you may want to discuss your anger experiences and what you might do to manage them and/or resolve the issues that may be causing them. Anger Management is a feature article that may help you consider the causes of your anger as well as find self-help techniques for managing it. In the long run does it matter whether or not you label your attacks as anger or panic? Only you and your treatment provider can answer that question. However, if anger attacks are signaling untreated depression, it can be an important step to determine what your are experiencing. References: Fava M, Rosenbaum, JF (1999), Anger attacks in patients with depression. J Clin Psychiatry 60(suppl 15): 21-24. Gould RA, Ball S, Kaspi SP, Otto MW, Pollack MH, Shekhar A, Fava M (1996), Prevalence and correlates of anger attacks: a two site study. J Affect Disord 39(1): 31-8. http://panicdisorder.about.com/cs/pdbeyond/a/angerattacks_2.htm ~*~How do I love thee? Hang on a second …let me Google the ways~*~ ~~ Christine Geary — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Could Your Panic Be Anger? From Cathleen Henning, Your Guide to Panic / Anxiety Disorders. Snip: http://panicdisorder.about.com/cs/pdbeyond/a/angerattacks_2.htm

Very good article Jackie — Thanx. We worked on anger a lot during our group sessions for panic disorder. Seems like a lot of the panic was repressed anger. Our therapist told us to hand a punching bag in the basement.

Response:

Hi Jackie, In my case I feel about 100% sure that my panic is repressed anger. The symptoms are eerily familiar. Are there more articles like this? Thanks, Sunil From Cathleen Henning, Your Guide to Panic / Anxiety Disorders. Snip: http://panicdisorder.about.com/cs/pdbeyond/a/angerattacks_2.htm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::In my case I feel about 100% sure that my panic is repressed anger. ::The symptoms are eerily familiar. ::Are there more articles like this? This may interest you…… ~*~Although anger attacks have been described in depressed outpatients, they have not been well studied in other disorders. In Study 1, we examined the prevalence of anger attacks in 50 outpatients with panic disorder. In Study 2, we replicated the initial findings at an independent site and examined the specificity of anger attacks by comparing their occurrence in patients with panic disorder, patients with other non-panic anxiety disorders and patients with a depressive disorder. At both sites, we also explored the relationship between anger attacks and demographic and clinical characteristics, such as gender, presence and severity of depression, and social anxiety measures. In both sites, the prevalence of anger attacks in patients with panic disorder was approximately one-third. However, anger attacks were not unique to panic disorder, with similar rates emerging for patients with other anxiety disorders. Furthermore, patients with depressive diagnoses had twice the prevalence of anger attacks than did anxiety patients. At both sites, those with anger attacks were significantly more depressed and were likely to have either current or past history of major depression. Anger attacks were not associated with social anxiety measures, but were related to cluster B, cluster C and self-defeating personality disorder traits. Our findings support the notion that anger attacks are best conceptualized as an associated feature of depression.~*~ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_… Jackie ~*~I’m not trying to change the world. I’m trying to stop the world from changing me~*~ ~ Ammon Hennacy ~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Our findings support the notion that anger attacks are best conceptualized as an associated feature of depression.~*~

That makes sense. Irritability is a symptom of depression. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Feeling not like myself

admin — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Response:

::Thanks everyone for your input! :: ::Jackie, I’ve wondered myself if my thyroid’s the culprit. I’ve tested ::borderline for years (even as a child!) and have ALWAYS had the foggy/ ::fatigued/unreal feeling, but it’s never been as severe as it is now, ::which coincides with my new TSH numbers. My doctor’s starting me on ::the lowest dose possible and then checking back frequently. I’m still ::cautious, but it would be wonderful if I started feeling like myself ::again when the medication kicks in. The past month has been so ::strange and awful, so it would be nice to know it’s something ::physically fixable. Thank you for your kind thoughts. Dear Zosia, Please keep us updated as to how you’re feeling. I really think your thyroid is causing or contributing to your recent mental symptoms. My daughter has Grave’s disease. Before she was diagnosed she told me she feared she was losing her mind. Thyroid issues can cause lots of problems both mentally and physically. Feel better soon Jackie ~*~I’ve seen and met angels wearing the disguise of ordinary people living ordinary lives~*~ ~~Tracy Chapman — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Thanks everyone for your input! Jackie, I’ve wondered myself if my thyroid’s the culprit. I’ve tested borderline for years (even as a child!) and have ALWAYS had the foggy/ fatigued/unreal feeling, but it’s never been as severe as it is now, which coincides with my new TSH numbers. My doctor’s starting me on the lowest dose possible and then checking back frequently. I’m still cautious, but it would be wonderful if I started feeling like myself again when the medication kicks in. The past month has been so strange and awful, so it would be nice to know it’s something physically fixable. Thank you for your kind thoughts. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all, I’ve been lurking a bit, but wanted to share an experience. As I said in my intro post a few weeks back, I’ve had anxiety/panic of varying degrees for 15+ years. In the past six months, depersonalization and a constant feeling of being removed and "not myself" have emerged as new anxiety symptoms. A month ago, I had the worst panic attack I’ve had in a decade, preceded and followed by terrible depersonalization. The depersonalization has lessened and the anxiety is much better, but I still can’t shake that feeling of not being myself. It feels like the entire world is different and I have a new awareness of some sorts – I don’t know how to explain it! The terrible anxiety attack really pushed me to evaluate a lot of my current coping strategies and to really face a lot of serious life issues I’d been previously denying, so I don’t know if not feeling like myself is exactly that – my life is changing and I’ve never been in this position before, or if it means something is screwy in my brain! It’s a frightening to float through the day, feeling like my brain’s unsnapped and that I’ll never feel "normal" again. My therapist believes it’s still just another anxiety symptom, manifesting in a new way. Has anyone else felt like this? It’s been a month, but I’m hoping, with more time, I’ll feel more in-tune with my life and less out of it. (Not currently taking medication, but I was just diagosed as hypothyroid a few days ago, so I’ll soon be starting medication for that. I don’t have any of the hypo symptoms besides the anxiety/ depression/fatigue, but the numbers were pretty high.) Thanks for listening, Zosia Hi Zosia, I can’t speak to the hypothyroidism, as I have no knowledge about such things, but I did go back an read your introductory post.. I can only say that the phobia you have of medication… I seriously doubt that most medications are going to have as bad an effect on you as living with this depersonalization, or whatever it may be. That has to be extremely difficult for you and I can’t help but think you are suffering needlessly. I highly recommend going to a qualified psychiatrist for evaluation.. this may be depersonalization, or it could be other things. I fall into the category of folks who have *other things*… it all just sounds very familiar to me and I would run and not walk to a psychiatrist.. openly discuss this med phobia with pdoc and therapist.. and get on some medication that is going to relieve these symptoms. I am so sorry you are suffering like this.. it is something you do not *have* to do. We live in a time where there is help for our disorders..not cures, but help.. if your symptoms get worse than your phobia, you will be motivated to do it.. I’m just sorry you are suffering. The fears are irrational and not founded in truth at all.. .they are ideas in your mind that have no basis in fact.. you can challenge them, and kick those to the curb where they belong. I hope you get up the nerve to see a pdoc, and to take the medication that is prescribed. It will be better than what you are doing now, I think. I wish you well. Please feel free to continue to read and post, we are here to support and help one another. Sally

Zosia, I cannot find any other post about a fear of drugs, but I agree with Sally, that a fear that *prescription drugs* are harmful and will always more often than not cause your greater harm than relief is irrational. I take about seven rx a day and they work. Prozac works for me. I remember when my first anti-depressant started to wear off I told my doctor , "Just don’t put me on Prozac." After taking the new drug for a week, I loked up the prescription name, "fluoxetine." It is Prozac. An injection of atavan calmed me down – in seconds. The pain level went from a 10 to a 1, where 10 is the highest, – in seconds. There was no long lasting effect of that dose. Have you ever considered that drugs can be nourishment, just as food and water are? Meat, fish, vegetables, fruits, and what not provide us with chemicals and minerals our bodies need. Drugs provide us with chemicals, as well. Suppose you need more calcium. Some foods don’t supply enough, others would. Some drugs provide calcium and, when taken with foods that provide it, could give you enough, Last night’s dinner provided you with chemicals and minerals. You’re still alive. There’s only one way to find out. EH — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, all, I’ve been lurking a bit, but wanted to share an experience. As I said in my intro post a few weeks back, I’ve had anxiety/panic of varying degrees for 15+ years. In the past six months, depersonalization and a constant feeling of being removed and "not myself" have emerged as new anxiety symptoms. A month ago, I had the worst panic attack I’ve had in a decade, preceded and followed by terrible depersonalization. The depersonalization has lessened and the anxiety is much better, but I still can’t shake that feeling of not being myself. It feels like the entire world is different and I have a new awareness of some sorts – I don’t know how to explain it! The terrible anxiety attack really pushed me to evaluate a lot of my current coping strategies and to really face a lot of serious life issues I’d been previously denying, so I don’t know if not feeling like myself is exactly that – my life is changing and I’ve never been in this position before, or if it means something is screwy in my brain! It’s a frightening to float through the day, feeling like my brain’s unsnapped and that I’ll never feel "normal" again. My therapist believes it’s still just another anxiety symptom, manifesting in a new way. Has anyone else felt like this? It’s been a month, but I’m hoping, with more time, I’ll feel more in-tune with my life and less out of it. (Not currently taking medication, but I was just diagosed as hypothyroid a few days ago, so I’ll soon be starting medication for that. I don’t have any of the hypo symptoms besides the anxiety/ depression/fatigue, but the numbers were pretty high.) Thanks for listening, Zosia — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Zosia, I can’t speak to the hypothyroidism, as I have no knowledge about such things, but I did go back an read your introductory post.. I can only say that the phobia you have of medication… I seriously doubt that most medications are going to have as bad an effect on you as living with this depersonalization, or whatever it may be. That has to be extremely difficult for you and I can’t help but think you are suffering needlessly. I highly recommend going to a qualified psychiatrist for evaluation.. this may be depersonalization, or it could be other things. I fall into the category of folks who have *other things*… it all just sounds very familiar to me and I would run and not walk to a psychiatrist.. openly discuss this med phobia with pdoc and therapist.. and get on some medication that is going to relieve these symptoms. I am so sorry you are suffering like this.. it is something you do not *have* to do. We live in a time where there is help for our disorders..not cures, but help.. if your symptoms get worse than your phobia, you will be motivated to do it.. I’m just sorry you are suffering. The fears are irrational and not founded in truth at all.. .they are ideas in your mind that have no basis in fact.. you can challenge them, and kick those to the curb where they belong. I hope you get up the nerve to see a pdoc, and to take the medication that is prescribed. It will be better than what you are doing now, I think. I wish you well. Please feel free to continue to read and post, we are here to support and help one another. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Anxiety Disorder Keeps 1.8 Million Americans Jailed By Their Own Minds

admin — Mon, 28 May 2007 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

::Very good article…thanks for sharing it. I have Anxiety Disorder with ::Agoraphobia and P.T.S.D. I could really relate! Maybe, when I get to know ::people a little better here, I will share more. comfortable. Take care Jackie ~*~Life is not the way it’s supposed to be. It’s the way it is. The way you deal with it is what makes the difference~*~ ~~ Virginia Satir — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Very good article…thanks for sharing it. I have Anxiety Disorder with Agoraphobia and P.T.S.D. I could really relate! Maybe, when I get to know people a little better here, I will share more. Kris

version of an article from www.theledger.com Published Sunday, May 27, 2007 Sunday, May 27, 2007 Anxiety Disorder Keeps 1.8 Million Americans Jailed By Their Own Minds By Gary White The Ledger

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

This is a printer friendly version of an article from www.theledger.com To print this article open the file menu and choose Print. Back Published Sunday, May 27, 2007 Sunday, May 27, 2007 Anxiety Disorder Keeps 1.8 Million Americans Jailed By Their Own Minds By Gary White The Ledger Traci Langley , right a waitress at Fat Jack’s serves customer David Mills , left at the restaurant in Lakeland , Fl., Tuesday May 8, 2007. For story on agoraphobia. Ernst Peters/The Ledger. TO LEARN MORE Anxiety Disorders Association of America offers a directory of mental-health professionals at 240-485-1001 or www.adaa.org. "The Agoraphobia Workbook: A Comprehensive Program to End Your Fear of Symptom Attacks," by Alec Pollard and Elke Zuercher-White, New Harbinger Publications. Panic Portal – www.panicportal.com. Shirley Croley lives under virtual house arrest. With rare exceptions, Croley is confined to her 868-square-foot apartment in Lakeland and the area immediately around it. If Croley ventures more than a block or so away without accompaniment, a jarring signal sends her scrambling back home. The shock comes not from an electronic ankle bracelet or other external device but from her own brain. Croley has agoraphobia, an anxiety disorder that keeps her from venturing outside a narrow psychological safety zone. She can make it to a few places in Lakeland if escorted by a trusted relative, but in large measure her universe throughout her adult life has been bounded by the walls of her various homes. Agoraphobia denied Croley from ever watching her two sons play a football game. It kept her from joining the kids and her ex-husband on trips to the beach or a festival. The disorder kept her from getting prenatal checkups when she was pregnant and from receiving dental care, and as a result she lost her teeth – causing embarrassment that reinforces her fear of venturing out. In ways large and small, agoraphobia has controlled Croley’s life for more than 40 years. "You feel like you’re in jail, but there’s no key to let you out," said Croley, 62. "There are times you think, ‘I hate this house; I want to get out.’ And then when you try, you get so scared you feel like a little kid." Agoraphobia – which affects 1.8 million American adults, according to the National Institute of Mental Health – is a largely misunderstood condition. The term itself combines agora, the name for marketplaces in ancient Greece, with the word for fear, but agoraphobia is not actually a fear of public spaces. The diagnosis is based not on any particular fear or its source but on the behavior spawned by the fear, said Alec Pollard, co-author of "The Agoraphobia Workbook." "If they just have panic attacks with no avoidance, it’s just called panic disorder," said Pollard, director of the Anxiety Disorder Center at the St. Louis Behavioral Medicine Institute and a professor at St. Louis University. "As soon as they start to get worried – ‘What would happen if I had one here?’ – and start to avoid those circumstances, then it becomes agoraphobia." The anxiety that fuels agoraphobia usually spawns primal, fight-or-flight sensations: racing heartbeat, difficulty breathing, light-headedness, cold flashes and sweats. Pollard said agoraphobics often wind up in emergency rooms, convinced they’re having heart attacks. Agoraphobia varies considerably in intensity. Croley knew a woman who never took a shower because she couldn’t bear the vulnerability of taking her clothes off, whereas Traci Langley, Croley’s friend and neighbor, works as a waitress despite the disorder. Though Langley seems unshackled compared to Croley, agoraphobia curtails her freedom. Langley, 37, would like to go on a cruise but doesn’t dare for fear of being overtaken by anxiety at sea. She once turned down 50-yard-line tickets to a Tampa Bay Buccaneers game because she didn’t want to risk an attack inside the stadium. "You start to fear the fear," Langley said. "You fear your next attack. You fear losing control in front of a crowd. … Sometimes I’ll go in the mall and I’ll need to leave, and sometimes I get to a store and I’ll tell my kids, ‘I may need to leave.’ I have left a grocery cart with groceries in the store." Agoraphobics say it’s impossible to make others understand the disorder because they don’t even understand it themselves. "What is so horrible is we don’t know what we’re afraid of," Croley said. "You walk out of your home and it feels like the world’s coming down on you, and you don’t know what it is, but you have a feeling of impending doom. If you have a phobia of dogs or snakes, you can avoid them most of your life, but you can’t stay away from your own mind. You can’t avoid it." "A friend of mine described it best," Langley added. "She said the feeling of a panic attack is that somebody took you and shoved you in a trunk and slammed the lid down on you. Even in the course of having an attack, I realize it is kind of ridiculous, and I realize I have no reason to be freaking out, but it’s like your body is betraying you." Croley said she has prayed to have doctors discover a brain tumor, something that might be excised to return her to the world she knew before agoraphobia consumed her life. blindsided by fear Croley said she grew up in Lakeland with no psychological irregularities. She had friends and dated, and she sometimes traveled alone by bus to visit relatives in Georgia. At 18, Croley got a job and left her parents’ home to share an apartment in Lakeland with another girl. Not long afterward, she came down with a cold that confined her to bed for a few days. Her father came to see her, wrapped her in a blanket and took her home with him. She soon recovered, but when she tried to go outside she was blindsided by intense anxiety. "From that day, I couldn’t walk outside my door," Croley said. Neither she nor those around her understood what was happening. Years would pass before Croley learned about agoraphobia from a newspaper article. Croley wound up in the psychiatric ward at Lakeland Memorial Hospital, where she said she underwent 46 doses of shock treatment. She later spent 1 1/2 months at a state psychiatric hospital in Arcadia, "one of the most horrible places I’ve ever been," while pregnant with her first child. Croley’s condition improved for a time, and she married and had two sons and a daughter. She worked as a teacher’s aide at Central Avenue Elementary, where her daughter Beverly was a student. The pair walked together the two blocks to school, and Croley said her daughter calmed her during her frequent panic attacks. After the birth of her youngest child, Josh, Croley said she "got sucked back at home again. If you don’t keep yourself going or moving and moving, your boundaries get small." Croley said her husband was never sympathetic to her, and she sought a divorce after 18 years. Because of her disorder, a judge sent out a court reporter and the legal proceedings took place in her living room. Lacking emotional support from a spouse, Croley became dependent on her oldest son, Steve, born in 1968. Croley recalls a moment when Steve was 4 or 5 and found his mother collapsed in the hallway, crying amid a panic attack. "He put his arms around me and said, ‘Mama, don’t worry. I’m here; I’ll take care of you,’" she said. "And that made me cry harder, because I thought, ‘Here he is, so young, and yet he’s telling me he’ll take care of me. I’m supposed to be the one taking care of him.’" Shirley Croley sits on the front step of her home with her dog Oreo in Lakeland , Fl., Friday May 4, 2007.Croley has had agoraphobia , fear of venturing out into the world for 44 years . Ernst Peters/The Ledger. By his early teens, Steve handled the family’s grocery shopping – walking to the store and taking a taxi home – and took his brother and sister to doctor appointments. When Josh was hit in the face by a baseball and faced the possible loss of an eye, Steve took him to the hospital and stayed with him, while the boys’ mother frantically checked in by phone. Croley, who receives disability payments, was living with Steve until 2005, when he moved to California to pursue a television career. Now 38, he is a location manager for the TV show "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition." Croley said encouraging Steve to move away took all of her courage. Croley’s fear of going out is coupled with a fear of being alone, even at home, and she speaks with shame of the countless times she has needed one of her grandchildren to "baby-sit" her. "You just have to be supportive about it," said granddaughter Nicole Croley, 20, "and it’s hard to be supportive about something you don’t understand and something you can’t see, especially when you’re a kid. Someone had to be making sure she was OK at all times, and a lot times being a kid I would resent that, especially (as) a teenager wanting to go out." Pollard said agoraphobics often have one or more "safety people," relatives or friends with whom they can venture beyond their personal comfort zone. Steve has long held that role for Croley, and she’s secure enough when escorted by a few other relatives to visit designated places in Lakeland, including her psychiatrist’s office and the library. But she said without Steve she’s too fearful to reach the doctor’s office for a mammogram, though she’s two years overdue and said she has a tumor in one breast and cysts in the other. Agoraphobics are often prescribed anti-anxiety medications, but Pollard said the best long-term results come from cognitive-behavioral therapy, in which patients explore the thoughts connected to their anxiety and gradually push themselves to confront frightening situations. Croley said her psychiatrist after many tries found a combination of three drugs that is helpful. She said she couldn’t have imagined living by herself before going on the medications. Langley, Croley’s friend who also suffers from the disorder, … read more »

Response:

OT: Bonus Question of the day…. 05/24/07

admin — Fri, 25 May 2007 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

05/24/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own anon poster If you could gain back all the hours you’ve spent in your life doing a certain thing, what would it be? Jackie ~*~If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change your attitude~*~ ~~ Maya Angelou quote — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

05/24/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own anon poster If you could gain back all the hours you’ve spent in your life doing a certain thing, what would it be?

I would like to gain back all the time and energy wasted on worrying for nothing. — Ron P Member of the invisible generation — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

05/24/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own anon poster If you could gain back all the hours you’ve spent in your life doing a certain thing, what would it be? Jackie

Reinstalling Microsoft Windows after it explodes! — _TJ_

Response:

And restarting my computer after MS Windows freezes up. About every other day. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

05/24/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own anon poster If you could gain back all the hours you’ve spent in your life doing a certain thing, what would it be?

Ah, easy: all the time spent otssing and turning, unable to sleep due to pain or panic! Wow… I’d get back *years*, maybe even a decade, LOL! — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Reinstalling Microsoft Windows after it explodes!

Now there’s a "feature" I haven’t seen yet. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

05/24/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own anon poster If you could gain back all the hours you’ve spent in your life doing a certain thing, what would it be?

All the time spent having anxiety/panic attacks. That should be good for 15 to 20 years. ~*~If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change your attitude~*~ ~~ Maya Angelou quote

Sounds like 2/3 of the Serenity Prayer. The wisdom to know the difference is the hardest part! God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

05/24/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own anon poster If you could gain back all the hours you’ve spent in your life doing a certain thing, what would it be? Jackie

Worrying. It accomplishes nothing. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::If you could gain back all the hours you’ve spent in your life doing a ::certain thing, what would it be? Worrying and neurotic house cleaning Jackie ~*~If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change your attitude~*~ ~~ Maya Angelou quote — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::If you could gain back all the hours you’ve spent in your life doing a ::certain thing, what would it be? Worrying and neurotic house cleaning

You could come and clean my house and it wouldn’t be neurotic But worrying is a different matter. If you have good reason to worry, its a protection, but worrying about many things is not necessary, yet we all do it. Mary — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

question: anxiety/depression and childhood

admin — Fri, 11 May 2007 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

any disorder of the psyche or soma-one can find some traumatic event in everyones life that may be used to explain all kinds of things but rarely can this be shown to actually be the clinical etiological epiphany that created whatever we want to use it as *blame* for

I’m looking for *understanding* of my "disorder". And not to blame someone. Chip p.s. I read an article (online) in the New Yorker Magazine about the man who persuaded the group that creates the DSM to stop using the term "neurosis" and replace it with "disorder". I think this occured about 1980 with the DSM III. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

um….to sum up quickly, yes. -z-

that was quick! Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen. Chip I was a happy child in a very liberal environment. I was a happy adult in a very liberal environment (more liberal than my employers liked!). Then one day in my thirties the sledgehammer that is panic hit me.

Why do you think it hit you, Simon? Something horrible had happened but it was then, not as a child.

what happened? Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen.

Yes I think it’s a nature *and* nurture type thing. Even schizophrenia is supposed to have ties to the ones upbringing. Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen. Yes I think it’s a nature *and* nurture type thing. Even schizophrenia is supposed to have ties to the ones upbringing.

not a snowballs chance in Hell-it is purely a biophysiological anomaly that has a high level of familial genetics involved-a schizophrenigenic mother is one who actually has schizophrenia Tony

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

then start with your domineering criticizing Father and how you reacted to him. The conflicts he created could have altered your ability to perceive information and process it rationally. A child cannot fathom beyond the "truth" of paternal or maternal criticism-they begin to define themselves by that "truth" it becomes a spectrum disorder or "epicenter" of their psyche-anger, frustration and hatred that is then turned into guilt can all be fertile grounds for anxiety-look at your relationship with him -his demands, his iron fisted rule and your more natural tendency to seek approval and love. Those summers at the beach were the archetypical good times for you-your grandparents seem to have provided a more stable nurturing atmosphere for you-this is what you craved from your parents-perhaps maybe seeking a few turns with a new age psychodynamic style therapist may help you find out what you are looking for Chip p.s. I read an article (online) in the New Yorker Magazine about the man who persuaded the group that creates the DSM to stop using the term "neurosis" and replace it with "disorder". I think this occured about 1980 with the DSM III.

I see it this way: One can be neurotic and not disordered but one who is disordered is usually severely neurotic, or suffering from a plethora of any number of other ails- my definition of neurosis is smart people acting stupid-disorder is a breakdown in ones ability to function in a viable manner in a society-the dsm is a wonderful but entirely too reductionistic a compendeum of symptom specific diseases and disorders-rarely are things so black and white-we can use a larger scope of definitions that are not so "bleak and dark" as calling neurotic people "disordered" — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen. Chip

My parents never argued, but I can imagine that’s one bad environment to grow up in. My issues came later on, partially from heredity and partially from abuse. It was helpful for me to understand that. It was also helpful for me to let it go once I understood it. Can’t fix it. The damage was done years ago by people as sick or sicker than I am.. so what? That’s called life.. and shit happens, and it didn’t just happen to me, stuff like that’s been going on since the beginning of families. I don’t even know of any families that are NOT dysfunctional, to some extent. I do think it helped me very much to understand why – mainly, because I had blamed me for other people’s problems for a long time. Decades.. But if you can’t let it go, then you are up the creek with the knowledge of who did what to you when. There is a danger of getting – and even staying very angry and bitter if you come to an understanding but do not follow it up with forgiving, letting go and moving forward. Life’s short. Too short to spend it angry and miserable over old crap. It is good to understand, but it is good to move forward after you do and let it be. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’m looking for *understanding* of my "disorder". And not to blame someone. then start with your domineering criticizing Father and how you reacted to him.

I often react to other people as though they are him. IOW they are potential criticizers (critics) of me. The conflicts he created could have altered your ability to perceive information and process it rationally. A child cannot fathom beyond the "truth" of paternal or maternal criticism-they begin to define themselves by that "truth" it becomes a spectrum disorder or "epicenter" of their psyche-anger, frustration and hatred that is then turned into guilt can all be fertile grounds for anxiety-look at your relationship with him -his demands, his iron fisted rule and your more natural tendency to seek approval and love.

When he died last summer I don’t think I felt any loss. Or very much loss. It was like there was nothing there to lose. I remember feeling somewhat relieved. There would be no more devastating criticisms from him coming from out of the blue. His father died when he (my father) was a cadet at West Point. He told my mother he didn’t care whether his father lived or died. So this stuff is starting to repeat itself. Those summers at the beach were the archetypical good times for you-your grandparents

mostly my grandmother. My grandfather was back in Philly most of the time running a business. seem to have provided a more stable nurturing atmosphere for you

My grandmother didn’t criticize me. And she was loving. -this is what you craved from your parents-

As a child I had this fantasy that I might have to choose who would live or die. My mother or my grandmother. I always decided my mother would have to go :) good thing humor is a "mature" defense mechanism :) p.s. I read an article (online) in the New Yorker Magazine about the man who persuaded the group that creates the DSM to stop using the term "neurosis" and replace it with "disorder". I think this occured about 1980 with the DSM III. I see it this way: One can be neurotic and not disordered

Like Woody Allen? And all those Hollywood figures? Paris Hilton? Brittney Spears? but one who is disordered is usually severely neurotic, or suffering from a plethora of any number of other ails

I have all kinds of symptoms, phobias, obsessions, compulsions. – my definition of neurosis is smart people acting stupid- disorder is a breakdown in ones ability to function in a viable manner in a society

That’s consistent with the DSM. -the dsm is a wonderful but entirely too reductionistic a compendeum of symptom specific diseases and disorders-rarely are things so black and white-we can use a larger scope of definitions that are not so "bleak and dark" as calling neurotic people "disordered"

http://www.pdm1.org/ "In focusing on the full range of mental functioning, the PDM complements the DSM and ICD efforts in cataloguing symptoms. It systematically describes: ***Healthy and disordered personality functioning ***Individual profiles of mental functioning , including patterns of relating, comprehending, and expressing feelings, coping with stress and anxiety, observing one’s own emotions and behaviors, and forming moral judgments ***Symptom patterns , including differences in each individual’s personal or subjective experience of his or her symptoms" I received the above PDM (manual) in the mail yesterday. It’s interesting reading. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen.

My current therapist gave me this just after I started seeing her. I was pretty surprised at how much I related to it. I never really believed myself to be a victim of "trauma", I was never abused or witnessed abuse, I was just consistently treated negatively by my family and step-parents. It goes to show that trauma can mean a lot of things. http://www.nctsnet.org/nctsn_assets/pdfs/edu_materials/ComplexTrauma_… — David Chamberlain – ASAPM Moderator | Support for anxiety or panic disorders. Check us out! | | alt.support.anxiety-panic.moderated http://stump.algebra.com/~asapm | — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen. Yes I think it’s a nature *and* nurture type thing. Even schizophrenia is supposed to have ties to the ones upbringing. not a snowballs chance in Hell-it is purely a biophysiological anomaly that has a high level of familial genetics involved-a schizophrenigenic mother is one who actually has schizophrenia

Many agree with you, and many don’t. 1) http://www.mentalhealthchannel.net/schizophrenia/causes.shtml "Environmental factors and stress are thought to trigger the onset of schizophrenia. For example, moving, troubled relationships, problems at work, or substance abuse may aggravate the constellation of risk factors and lead to psychosis." 2) http://www.schizophrenia.com/hypo.php "Although the exact cause of schizophrenia remains unknown, experts agree that schizophrenia develops as a result of interplay between biological predisposition (for example, inheriting certain genes) and the kind of environment you are exposed to." 3) http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/000928.htm "Some researchers believe that events in a person’s environment may trigger schizophrenia." 4) http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/thought_disorders/schizo/nimh… "There is no known single cause of schizophrenia. Many diseases, such as heart disease, result from an interplay of genetic, behavioral, and other factors; and this may be the case for schizophrenia as well" 5) http://www.medicinenet.com/schizophrenia/page4.htm#35whatare "Like many other illnesses, schizophrenia is believed to result from a combination of environmental and genetic factors." 6) http://www.aurorahealthcare.org/yourhealth/healthgate/getcontent.asp?… "Risk factors for schizophrenia include biological, psychosocial, environmental, and sociocultural factors." OK, I’m tired of cutting and pasting. Like I wrote "Even schizophrenia is supposed to have ties to the ones upbringing." Here you have many examples that show why I wrote that. I could go on showing thousands of similar statements, and of course you could reply with thousands of people who don’t believe it. I don’t pretend to know the answer, just sharing information. Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

which genes get expressed depends on environment. That’s why one identical twin gets panic disorder and the other doesn’t. They have identical genes. but having a typical Irish childhood didn’t help either – we are not great at dealing with our emotions and tend to bottle them up and pretend they don’t exist.

I didn’t know that about the Irish, TJ. Then the social environment may have been a factor with you. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ::Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? :: ::My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like ::something horrible was about to happen. I’m positive that it played a huge part in developing an anxiety disorder. I also think there are some genetics involved as well. Me, my sisters and my mom have all been on anti-depressants. My mom also told me that my dad didn’t like crowds, parties or noise. Jackie ~*~"What I cannot love, I overlook."~*~ ~~ Anais Nin — The charter is available at:http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm i believe so chip…just before i started having panic attacks at age 12, there where alot of deaths in the family,

That’s alot of loss, Russ. I had my first PA after losing a girlfriend in college. But I only had 1 PA. I had the onset of panic disorder about 1 1/2 years later. my mom was diagnosed with cancer, and my father’s epilepsy started getting worse. im all of this to a sensitive child was alot,

I’m sensitive, or overly-sensitive and left me with a sense of insecurity. when i started having panic, i was to afraid to tell anyone cause i honestly thought i would be put in a mental institution.

I saw a psychiatrist for a year and never told her about my PAs. I was afraid she’d put me in a mental hospital. this really left me with a sense of learned helplessness

or someone never gave you a model of how to help yourself that i struggle with to this day. my parents also were to wrapped up in their own problems to notice mine.

Same story here. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen. I can see why it would make you feel insecure. It is my belief that many things which happen in childhood have a profound effect on future

problems. Mary, I’m just beginning to see how profound the effect is. To me, how can it be otherwise? When I get depressed , I feel exactly the same as when I was a child due to feelings of loneliness and insecurity. My father died when I was very young which had a huge impact on my life and shaped much of it. My mother, by necessity had to work and was not at home a lot due to long work hours. My depression was definitely exacerbated by later life events. My mother was not a depressed person nor did she have anxiety attacks and nobody on my father’s side did that I know of.

neither of my parents had anxiety attacks, although my father got depressed in his later years. I have always had more trouble with depression than anxiety, but in the last 5 years, I have had times of situational anxiety/phobias. Depression and anxiety are very often linked.

They do seem to go together. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen. Chip

I know mine is. My mom was always really hard on me and made me feel like I could never do anything right. She berated me to the point where I was afraid to make friends, afraid to go anywhere. She kept calling me ugly and said terrible things to me. It’s a long story, but it really cut into my self-confidence. I started to feel like I couldn’t do anything at all and I just wanted to die. I know her verbal abuse played a huge factor in my anxiety problem. (Funny thing is that now she suffers from anxiety, too! HA! Payback.

Response:

My parents were always arguing also. Many periods of them not speaking for days on end… It was an insecure and anxiety producing environment to grow up in. Always walking on egg shells… I was anxious as a child and my anxiety only intensified as I got older. smiles, Elise

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems?

Their actions definitely played a role in my present situation. Hell, all three of us siblings are all screwed up in one way or another and the only commonality between us is our parents. — Ron P Member of the invisible generation — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

um….to sum up quickly, yes. -z-

Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen. Chip

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? yes it wasn’t long enough My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen. but what was different in you,compared to the other 100 million or so kids that didn’t respond in any negative way to their parents sparring? What is different between the child that experiences some severe loss and just goes on with their life then those that develop an obstacle in their growth? I have pondered the above question many times in my life. The only conclusion I could ever come to was that all children’s personalities are different and belong to them uniquely.

yes-but now let’s get even more reductionistic and try to see what creates ones personality-what is that thing that makes each of us an individual-are we born tabula rasa or a blank slate or do we have innate personalities Some children can overcome traumatic events such as severe losses like the early loss of a parent as in my case and others struggle with such childhood events all their lives. Its the same as saying why can some people cope with crises, but others sink and are lost?

yes-so why? What is it within each of us that enables us to get past trauma no matter how trivial or profound why do some alcoholics/addicts manage to see they will die if they continue on a downward spiral, but others continue on knowing it it is killing them? I knew a 45 year old man qute well, who died a year ago. He was alcoholic, and had been drinking since an early age. He had a good job, he was smart, good looking, married with two children, seemed to have it all. He eventually lost everything he had ever worked for and valued, put himself and his family through hell, yet was not able to save himself. He was warned by doctors that he would not live a long life if he continued on his present path. He said he didn’t care and that he had no intention to stop drinking. So the question arises -Why wasn’t he able to stop his addiction the same as many others do?

it appears that some people are more prone to a more crippling uncontrollable chemical dependency regardless of its consequences-this is why alcoholism and drug abuse are now seen as "diseases"-we don’t have any tabgible cure for them but many treatments-if you closely examine the aa type program you may see some evidence of loosely based cbt and theological or spiritual support and security They can see they are sinking and somewhere along the way, realize they want to live. Why did he not get that same warning voice from within? I see it as an unanswerable question with no solution and no acceptable or satisfactory answer.

I don’t see any acceptable or satisfactory answer to much of humanity’s ills, but I do not cease trying to make some sense of it I could view my childhood as magical and wonderous or traumatic-it, like most of life was both. We seem to have the propensity to develop some rather carefully designed perceptual distortions-we have the natural tendency to then assign the development of these distortions to either our genes or our parents treatment of us-there is one more facet to this equation-ourselves. Wouldn’t that be because a child does not have the ability and thought development to figure things out around him/her?

exactly-but we do now-so one can then postulate that just because when Mommy and Daddy yelled at each other I was miserable and scared and afraid we would all die-we don’t still subscribe to such sillyness-we may wish they would die to just shut up, but we can differentiate the mundane from the truly catastrophic or tragic-we may have learned to develop a "style" of thinking based on childhood and irrational logic that follows us throughout our life, but it is a learned behavior, that can be unlearned-so then we can conclude that I may have been affected by my childhood in my childhood and early youth, but no longer-my anxiety today may have habituated patterns learned early-but I can make new habitual patterns that override the old one. That part of our existence that is part of who we are and processes information like a dyslexic child trying to read. This hard wired aspect of our brains and nervous system seems to be the curmudgeon that somehow becomes the ghost in the machine-the driving force behind why one child in the same family becomes anxious and the others react more realistically to their external and internal world. Could it be the difference in individual’s nature, or personalilty or coping patterns which are different? Some people seem to be over-sensitive from birth and others are not. I have seen this in my own children. They are all very different in what they can tolerate and what they can’t. Yet they all went through the same difficult times and traumas within my family.

yes, most definitely-my point exactly calling it a sort of dyslexic mode of thinking-that inability to learn how to cope, to assimilate information from our environment, filter it through our perceptual and cognitive systems and make a rational conclusion-we know our panic attack will not kill us-we wish it would already, but this for-knowledge doesn’t prevent panic or even make us feel better about experiencing it. The anxiety sufferer has this hard wired inability to make certain types of inferences and generalizations that are more realistic, rational, and not negative fearful and overly hysterical-this can be seen in some young children-some seem to outgrow it, others not-it is those who don’t who may then develop a more long standing anxiety problem. I don’t really see this hard wiring issue as purley genetic or purely learned or purely environmentally produced or influenced-I think it is a combination of all these things sort of coming together in this time and space continuum, like the starts all getting aligned in the right way for the wrong reasons and voila, you get a person who has taken some flawed, hypersensitive portion of their brain and then magnified it through many other processes and experiences and allowed it through no fault of their own, to become "who they are" they bgein to define their very existance based upon their limitations and somatic perceptions, they increase their inability to tolerate discomfort, frustration and pain-they become even more sensitized-anywho that’s my take on this – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We learn things through various means, some things we already have learned via how our brain is configured-we can use that same brain to reconfigure things differently-see our Father’s abuse as the behavior of a sick person rather then our fault and a reflection on our being, our self worth, our ability to be loved or to succeed. Becoming conditioned to expect awful things to happen can rarely be truly a reinforceable behavior since those awful thnigs don’t usually happen anyway; and even if they did, what was the pay off of the worry or the unrealistic expectation of doom? The whole concept of our upbringing being the catalyst to secure a lifetime of mental anguish seems rather faulty an argument and an even faultier neurology-if fearing doom kept it from occuring, or allowed us to desensitize ourselves from it, then it would make more sense. If according to some dynamic theorists we become developmentally stunted by becoming stuck prior to the bloom of adult autonomy, then we would all be stuck and all be either significanlty depressed or anxious-our childhood can be a profound historical event, but it does not need to be a percursor to anything beyond that past and many times is not-when it is, there is a more biologically based etiology with a deep level of twisted belief systems that may be seen as dyslexic and grossly erroneous. A revelation to some people in retrospect but not by all ?

I don’t go for any revelations in anyone but myself, I try and get others to see beyond what may appear to be obvious, or not obvious if the case may be that as well-I have anxiety, I will have it and nothing I can do will get rid of it-so I need to learn how to live with it and not allow it to rule my life more then I choose to-no one or no thing is to blame for this-but I am responsible to myself for doing what I can to help myself. Serotonin, bad parental behaviors, bad teachers, lousy marriages, lousy friends, unfair world events, nothing causes ones anxiety-they may contribute to ones discomfort and certainly sustaine ones anxiety if we do not learn how to deal with our thoughts and beliefs about these things-if we foster anger towards our third grade teacher or our Mothers or ourselves we only are left with anger plus anxiety-if we beat ourselves up for being so disturbed or emotionally powerless or worthless (all neurotic beliefs by the way) then we will become depressed and still have anxiety (but we may feel the depression as more acute) The bottom line is that no one thing makes us what we are and no one thing can exlpain why we have any disorder of the psyche or soma-one can find some traumatic event in everyones life that may be used to explain all kinds of things but rarely can this be shown to actually be the clinical etiological epiphany that created whatever we want to use it as blame for-so my point is, if we ask if our past has any bearing on our present-we can answer both yes and no-but much more important is what can we do to improve our present and try and secure our future-we can learn from history but we don’t "have to" be ruled by it – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mary Evolution is not always linear, it jumps across

Response:

My parents were always arguing too, Chip, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it had something to do with the way I am today. Sorry you had to go through that too. Hugs, Di

Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen. Chip

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen.

I can see why it would make you feel insecure. It is my belief that many things which happen in childhood have a profound effect on future problems. To me, how can it be otherwise? When I get depressed , I feel exactly the same as when I was a child due to feelings of loneliness and insecurity. My father died when I was very young which had a huge impact on my life and shaped much of it. My mother, by necessity had to work and was not at home a lot due to long work hours. My depression was definitely exacerbated by later life events. My mother was not a depressed person nor did she have anxiety attacks and nobody on my father’s side did that I know of. I have always had more trouble with depression than anxiety, but in the last 5 years, I have had times of situational anxiety/phobias. Depression and anxiety are very often linked. Mary — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems?

yes it wasn’t long enough My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen.

but what was different in you,compared to the other 100 million or so kids that didn’t respond in any negative way to their parents sparring? What is different between the child that experiences some severe loss and just goes on with their life then those that develop an obstacle in their growth? I could view my childhood as magical and wonderous or traumatic-it, like most of life was both. We seem to have the propensity to develop some rather carefully designed perceptual distortions-we have the natural tendency to then assign the development of these distortions to either our genes or our parents treatment of us-there is one more facet to this equation-ourselves. That part of our existence that is part of who we are and processes information like a dyslexic child trying to read. This hard wired aspect of our brains and nervous system seems to be the curmudgeon that somehow becomes the ghost in the machine-the driving force behind why one child in the same family becomes anxious and the others react more realistically to their external and internal world. We learn things through various means, some things we already have learned via how our brain is configured-we can use that same brain to reconfigure things differently-see our Father’s abuse as the behavior of a sick person rather then our fault and a reflection on our being, our self worth, our ability to be loved or to succeed. Becoming conditioned to expect awful things to happen can rarely be truly a reinforceable behavior since those awful thnigs don’t usually happen anyway; and even if they did, what was the pay off of the worry or the unrealistic expectation of doom? The whole concept of our upbringing being the catalyst to secure a lifetime of mental anguish seems rather faulty an argument and an even faultier neurology-if fearing doom kept it from occuring, or allowed us to desensitize ourselves from it, then it would make more sense. If according to some dynamic theorists we become developmentally stunted by becoming stuck prior to the bloom of adult autonomy, then we would all be stuck and all be either significanlty depressed or anxious-our childhood can be a profound historical event, but it does not need to be a percursor to anything beyond that past and many times is not-when it is, there is a more biologically based etiology with a deep level of twisted belief systems that may be seen as dyslexic and grossly erroneous. Evolution is not always linear, it jumps across divides-there is a starting point anthropologically to anxiety-the things that make it sustained and chronic are the verbal pictorial processes that ruminates on those idee fix self perpetuating philosophies that spin in their irrational circles Chip

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? yes it wasn’t long enough My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen. but what was different in you,compared to the other 100 million or so kids that didn’t respond in any negative way to their parents sparring? What is different between the child that experiences some severe loss and just goes on with their life then those that develop an obstacle in their growth?

I have pondered the above question many times in my life. The only conclusion I could ever come to was that all children’s personalities are different and belong to them uniquely. Some children can overcome traumatic events such as severe losses like the early loss of a parent as in my case and others struggle with such childhood events all their lives. Its the same as saying why can some people cope with crises, but others sink and are lost? why do some alcoholics/addicts manage to see they will die if they continue on a downward spiral, but others continue on knowing it it is killing them? I knew a 45 year old man qute well, who died a year ago. He was alcoholic, and had been drinking since an early age. He had a good job, he was smart, good looking, married with two children, seemed to have it all. He eventually lost everything he had ever worked for and valued, put himself and his family through hell, yet was not able to save himself. He was warned by doctors that he would not live a long life if he continued on his present path. He said he didn’t care and that he had no intention to stop drinking. So the question arises -Why wasn’t he able to stop his addiction the same as many others do? They can see they are sinking and somewhere along the way, realize they want to live. Why did he not get that same warning voice from within? I see it as an unanswerable question with no solution and no acceptable or satisfactory answer. I could view my childhood as magical and wonderous or traumatic-it, like most of life was both. We seem to have the propensity to develop some rather carefully designed perceptual distortions-we have the natural tendency to then assign the development of these distortions to either our genes or our parents treatment of us-there is one more facet to this equation-ourselves.

Wouldn’t that be because a child does not have the ability and thought development to figure things out around him/her? That part of our existence that is part of who we are and processes information like a dyslexic child trying to read. This hard wired aspect of our brains and nervous system seems to be the curmudgeon that somehow becomes the ghost in the machine-the driving force behind why one child in the same family becomes anxious and the others react more realistically to their external and internal world.

Could it be the difference in individual’s nature, or personalilty or coping patterns which are different? Some people seem to be over-sensitive from birth and others are not. I have seen this in my own children. They are all very different in what they can tolerate and what they can’t. Yet they all went through the same difficult times and traumas within my family. We learn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – things through various means, some things we already have learned via how our brain is configured-we can use that same brain to reconfigure things differently-see our Father’s abuse as the behavior of a sick person rather then our fault and a reflection on our being, our self worth, our ability to be loved or to succeed. Becoming conditioned to expect awful things to happen can rarely be truly a reinforceable behavior since those awful thnigs don’t usually happen anyway; and even if they did, what was the pay off of the worry or the unrealistic expectation of doom? The whole concept of our upbringing being the catalyst to secure a lifetime of mental anguish seems rather faulty an argument and an even faultier neurology-if fearing doom kept it from occuring, or allowed us to desensitize ourselves from it, then it would make more sense. If according to some dynamic theorists we become developmentally stunted by becoming stuck prior to the bloom of adult autonomy, then we would all be stuck and all be either significanlty depressed or anxious-our childhood can be a profound historical event, but it does not need to be a percursor to anything beyond that past and many times is not-when it is, there is a more biologically based etiology with a deep level of twisted belief systems that may be seen as dyslexic and grossly erroneous.

A revelation to some people in retrospect but not by all ? Mary Evolution is not always linear, it jumps across divides-there is a starting point anthropologically to anxiety-the things that make it sustained and chronic are the verbal pictorial processes that ruminates on those idee fix self perpetuating philosophies that spin in their irrational circles

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

i believe so chip…just before i started having panic attacks at age 12, there where alot of deaths in the family, my mom was diagnosed with cancer, and my father’s epilepsy started getting worse. im all of this to a sensitive child was alot, and left me with a sense of insecurity. when i started having panic, i was to afraid to tell anyone cause i honestly thought i would be put in a mental institution. this really left me with a sense of learned helplessness that i struggle with to this day. my parents also were to wrapped up in their own problems to notice mine. russ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think your childhood is related to your current emotional problems? My parents were always arguing, and that made me feel insecure, like something horrible was about to happen. Chip

Good question Chip!! I think my anxiety is mostly genetic, but having a typical Irish childhood didn’t help either – we are not great at dealing with our emotions and tend to bottle them up and pretend they don’t exist. — _TJ_

Response:

Xanax

admin — Thu, 10 May 2007 00:00:00 +0000

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::I’m also afraid of jumping the gun by telling the doc about my "real" ::reasons for having a physical. I don’t have a PCP or a family doctor. ::This guy was picked completely at random from local docs covered by my ::insurance. He would have no reason to trust or believe that I have ::panic attacks/anxiety. He might just give me a refferal and dump me ::off. I’ve never tried xanax or any other medication. Hopefully I get ::something because if it works atleast I’ll have hope for the future. Welcome to ASAPM! You may be surprised to find that your doctor believes you since anxiety and depression are pretty common these days. I suggest you write down all your symptoms and any questions you have and bring it to your appt. It might also help to take some online quizzes to help you determine what anxiety disorer(s) you may suffer from. Print out the results and show them to your doctor. http://panicdisorder.about.com/library/quizzes/blgadquiz.htm http://panicdisorder.about.com/library/quizzes/blpanicattack.htm http://panicdisorder.about.com/library/quizzes/blsocialanxietyquiz.htm http://panicdisorder.about.com/library/quizzes/blptsdquiz.htm http://panicdisorder.about.com/library/quizzes/blocdquiz.htm Good luck! I hope you get some answers and effective treatments. Jackie ~*~"What I cannot love, I overlook."~*~ ~~ Anais Nin — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok- here is my storey- I have a heavy stress job in social services. I tend to panic in high stress and confrontational situations (get the bright red face). I also panic when ever I have a meeting with a supervisor or group of peers where may input is questioned. I know that I do an excellent job, but for some reason my nerves get the best of me when I am put on the spot. Also, I tent to "fly" off the handle quite a bit- my mood swings very and are never just b/c it is that "time of the month" or anthing like that. I just feel on edge and stressed the majority of the time. Recently, a friend gave me a couple of xanax to try (one a day) to see how that helped. It has made a tremendous difference- it does not make me to tired, but I do feel much more relaxed to the point where I can be more productive and confident in the work I do. My question is how do I approach my doctor about this? I do not want to sound like a "junkie" (especially by addiding that I tried out someone else’s prescription). Any advice? This is something that I have never really dealt with before. I have been through lots of therepy for many issues and feel that I do address issues as best I can through those means. It is the panicking and anxiety that I just do not understand why it jumps up in my throat for no reason? Help me please! ~Kat~

I agree with what everyone else has said, but I think the way to approach the Xanax thing is to find a shrink you can trust and tell him or her that you have some friends with the same problems you do and they take Xanax and it seems to work wonders for them. Your doc may try some SSRI’s, like Paxil, but many of us here do very well on small doses of Xanax or Ativan or other drugs in this family. I’m on a regimen of Ativan and Lexapro and it has literally changed my life. The important thing is to find a doctor who is not afraid of "benzos," and would be willing to try some and see how they work. There are generally two ways to take these drugs — one is "as needed" and the other is on a regular basis. From what you say there is a lot of hope out there for you so hang in there

and keep trying. BTW, benzos, when taken in the proper dose actually make people better workers, drivers, actors, or whatever. You wouldn’t want me driving your car when I’m not on my meds. With them I am focused and more alert. Good luck. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Actually, some of us do better on alprazolam (Xanax) than Paxil. Remember, these are entirely different classes of meds and not all anxiety disorders are serotonin related. No way to tell for sure which is best for each of us before trying them both. As for being open with a doctor about trying Xanax without a prescription, that’s hard to answer. Very much depends on how understanding the doctor is and is something of a judgement call. Generally, it’s a bad idea to try meds offered by friends and without a doctor’s supervision. Nonetheless, you now know that the med may be helpful to you and that’s valuable experience. Best Wishes, Arthur — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Kat- Sorry to hear you are having anxiety problems, I know its NOT fun! Now I’m no doctor but I think you’re problem revolves around performance anxiety/and maybe generalized anxiety disorder. DEFINATELY DO NOT TELL YOUR Doc about trying xanax. That’s a BIG NO NO!! Your doc MIGHT give you some xanax to get you through the immediate future but probably what you need is something like Paxil which will help with generalized anxiety disorder but it takes a couple of weeks to have the full effect. I do encourage you to go to your family physician and talk with them about whats going on and if he/she thinks you should go to a pysciatrist then they can refer you. Dont give up though because there is something that will help you get relief and you will be sooo glad you did. I suffered from panic disorder for 4 years before I agreed to take medicatiton but once I did and it got into my system I felt like my old self again and it was WONDERFUL. Good Luck to you Kellie G — The charter is available at:http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Messeges like the above give me lots of hope. Got an appointment for a physical with some random doctor next week. I already did my blood work and if it comes back clean then its got to be panic/anxiety thats my problem. If all I had to do was take a pill I’d be so happy. I’m also afraid of jumping the gun by telling the doc about my "real" reasons for having a physical. I don’t have a PCP or a family doctor. This guy was picked completely at random from local docs covered by my insurance. He would have no reason to trust or believe that I have panic attacks/anxiety. He might just give me a refferal and dump me off. I’ve never tried xanax or any other medication. Hopefully I get something because if it works atleast I’ll have hope for the future. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Hi Kat- Sorry to hear you are having anxiety problems, I know its NOT fun! Now I’m no doctor but I think you’re problem revolves around performance anxiety/and maybe generalized anxiety disorder. DEFINATELY DO NOT TELL YOUR Doc about trying xanax. That’s a BIG NO NO!! Your doc MIGHT give you some xanax to get you through the immediate future but probably what you need is something like Paxil which will help with generalized anxiety disorder but it takes a couple of weeks to have the full effect. I do encourage you to go to your family physician and talk with them about whats going on and if he/she thinks you should go to a pysciatrist then they can refer you. Dont give up though because there is something that will help you get relief and you will be sooo glad you did. I suffered from panic disorder for 4 years before I agreed to take medicatiton but once I did and it got into my system I felt like my old self again and it was WONDERFUL. Good Luck to you Kellie G — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Ok- here is my storey- I have a heavy stress job in social services. I tend to panic in high stress and confrontational situations (get the bright red face). I also panic when ever I have a meeting with a supervisor or group of peers where may input is questioned. I know that I do an excellent job, but for some reason my nerves get the best of me when I am put on the spot. Also, I tent to "fly" off the handle quite a bit- my mood swings very and are never just b/c it is that "time of the month" or anthing like that. I just feel on edge and stressed the majority of the time. Recently, a friend gave me a couple of xanax to try (one a day) to see how that helped. It has made a tremendous difference- it does not make me to tired, but I do feel much more relaxed to the point where I can be more productive and confident in the work I do. My question is how do I approach my doctor about this? I do not want to sound like a "junkie" (especially by addiding that I tried out someone else’s prescription). Any advice? This is something that I have never really dealt with before. I have been through lots of therepy for many issues and feel that I do address issues as best I can through those means. It is the panicking and anxiety that I just do not understand why it jumps up in my throat for no reason? Help me please! ~Kat~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Anxiety and Panic Information

SSRIs assoc with improvement by end of first week

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Resources for self-help groups world wide <09/11/07>

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OT: *Bonus* Question of the day…. 05/24/07

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question: anxiety/depression and childhood

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OT: Bonus Question of the day…. 05/24/07